Therapy Tapes: Group Microskills Assignment

Therapy Tapes: Group Microskills Assignment

Therapy Tapes: Group Microskills Assignment

00:10 GROUP MICROSKILLS: ENCOUNTERING DIVERSITY LYNN BANEZ, Ph.D., N.C.C., L.P.C. With Allen E. Ivey, Ed. D., ABPP and Mary Bradford Ivey, Ed. D., N.C.C., L.M.H.C. INTRODUCTION Allen E. Ivey and Mary Bradford Ivey

00:30 Allen E. Ivey Welcome, I’m Allen Ivey and this is basic groups skills. You’ve just seen what I think is a wonderful painting by Steve, ah– Stephen Juba Newchurch, Stephen Juba Newchurch. I say it twice because he does such wonderful work. He is an aboriginal artist on the Murray River in South Australia. I think this photo, this– of this painting illustrates what this tape is about, a person exists in a community and a network. The circles of family and community are what make us as individuals. In this tape we have the honor to present Lynn Banez, a superb group leader. We’ve looked for around the country for the best people we can find, we’ve selected Lynn as the ideal person to lead this particular group focusing on Microskills and its relationship to issues of diversity. So welcome to the tape. Now I’d like Mary Ivey to share with you a little bit about what this tape is about.

01:25 Mary Bradford Ivey The Microskills approach is the most researched method of skills training. And we’re delighted to share how the single skills approach can be helpful in understanding the specifics of group leaderships. You will see an entire theme-centered group session in this videotape from beginning to the end. We’ll be editing the session’s videotape for clarity and instructional purposes. Some of the skills we’re going to be emphasizing are attending and observing, the basic listening sequence, reframing, and confrontation. Regardless of the group work theory that you adopt, you’ll find yourself using these skills. Finally I’d like to mention the theoretical narrative framework used by Microskills. There is a story we’d like to bring out what the client has to say. The story brings out the issues, their concerns, and their problems. The positive assets, we wanna find out what the client have to share that could be used as a strength to work on their issues. And then we’d like to restory, review the story and find a more positive way to consider how the group member present issues. Action, can we contract with group members so that they can use their stories in daily life. So now let’s start the video and we look forward to your feedback. We’re delighted to present Lynn Banez to you. We know she’s one of the most outstanding group leaders in the nation.

02:50 SESSION 1. DIMENSION I INITIATING THE GROUP

02:55 Lynn Banez Okay, I wanna thank everybody, uhm, for coming today and participating in our group that talks about, ah, how diversity impacts our lives. So that will be the theme of our group. Before we do that though, I want to, uhm, let everybody know, like we wanna set some ground rules.

03:10 Creating a Safe Environment

Lynn Banez Uhm, first confidentiality and what’s, what is said in your group will, will stay in your group. Uhm, that we wanna respect one another, try to speak from personal experience. Uhm, try to speak about your own lives and not to speak about somebody else who is not here. I also wanna take the moment acknowledge, uhm, Julius who has taken time this morning to join our group but he has a previous engagement so he’ll be leaving, uhm, when we, when we break in a little bit. Uhm, but I, I wanted to thank you for being here and really thank all of you for being here, uhm, today. Uhm, all of you have already signed your informed consents that has gone over what you can expect today, ah, the topic that we’re going to cover, how that might impact you.

04:00 Informed Consent

Lynn Banez And that if anything arises, ah, that may become of an issue or of a concern, that I as your leader and also as a professor, yeah, an, you know, I’m involved in your studies and in your growth as a, as a counselor, ah, I’m required to discuss it with you, to– require to discuss it with other faculty. And then to meet with you to see if there’s any kind of remediation that needs to take place. Uhm, I don’t say that to, to scare you but I say that to inform you. Also if anything that’s brought up today that happens to talk about, you know, uhm, have harm to oneself or harm to someone else, ah, again I don’t expect that today but if that should come up I am required by, ah, our ethical standards and our guidelines for best practice to report those kinds of things. Certainly I would never do that without including you in the process. Okay? Do you have any other questions and are there any other ground rules that we need to set up before we get going?

Therapy Tapes: Group Microskills Assignment

04:55 RAPPORT AND STRUCTURING: PREPARING TO ENCOUNTER DIVERSITY Structuring

05:00 Lynn Banez Okay. Okay. Now many of you don’t really, ah, know each other. So what I thought we would do is for about two minutes, so you have one minute each. I want you to interview another person in the group, perhaps, you know the person sitting next to you. You can just, ah, pair up, or, or triple up however you want. Actually we can just go in threes. Each of you take a minute and describe yourself and then we’ll go around the group and I want someone else to, uhm, introduce you to the group. We’re going to look at this from a diversity, ah, perspective. So as you talk about yourself, I want you to talk about those things that you believe construct, ah, diversity and multiculturalism for you. And then I want the other two people to hear and then again, we will take turns. This will be tomes so really you have 60 seconds to, to get your identity out there in however form or fashion you wanna do that. And then we’ll move on to the next person. Okay? So why don’t we take time to do that right now? Ah, introduce yourselves to one another, uhm, you three can work together and you three over here can work together and, ah, talk about yourself from a, multicultural perspective, whatever that means for you.

06:25 GROUP MEMBERS INTERVIEW EACH OTHERS FOR MINUTES FROM A MULTICULTURAL PERSPECTIVE FOCUSING ON DIVERSITY

06:30 Lynn Banez Okay, are you guys, are you guys done? All right, if I can, if I can, ah, bring everybody back to the group, ah, what I want you to do is to take turns, uhm, just introducing maybe the person next to you or however you decide, ah, to introduce them. The challenge to you is to introduce them using what you believe what you heard were their two most salient identifiers. So for example if someone, ah, spoke about themselves and they talked about their culture, they talked about their gender, they talk about their religion you’re gonna have to pick which two things, ah, that you believe based on your interview helps them shape how they make meaning out of the world. Okay? Who would like to go first?

07:20 Theresa Uhm.

07:25 Lynn Banez Theresa.

Theresa I interviewed, ah, Araya and Julius.

Lynn Banez And let’s speak, speak up so they…

07:30 Theresa Oh, I’ll talk about, uhm, Araya and I think the two things that Arya focused on were one that she is a Tibetan Buddhist and also that she is a, a woman in a Spanish culture. Uhm, her parents are– her mother is from South, South America and her father is from –

07:55 Araya Iowa.

Theresa – from where?

Araya Iowa.

Theresa Iowa. And, uhm, she felt that being a woman in that culture, uhm, is one the diversity issues for her.

08:05 Lynn Banez Okay. And Araya, do you wanna introduce either, either Theresa?

08:10 UNKNOWN Yeah, uhm –

Lynn Banez Or Julius?

Araya I’ll introduce, uhm, Julius who, uhm, is Afro-American and talked about, uhm, going to school in a rural area of Pennsylvania and not having had too much exposure to, uhm, a lot of cultures but, uhm, since that time has had a lot of exposure through Fairfield University in his experience here. And, uhm, and enj– and, and has enjoyed that enrichment.

08:35 Lynn Banez Okay. Ah, Julius do you wanna introduce Theresa to the group?

08:40 Julius Ah, yes, I, ah, spoke to Theresa and, ah, Theresa is of Irish descent. Ah, your family is, uhm, first generation –

08:50 Theresa Yeah.

Julius – immigrants.

Theresa Yeah.

Julius Uhm, she works in a, ah, business environment in which, you know, she’s a Irish American woman, ah, in a male dominated, uhm, business world. And, ah, she stressed emphasis of her being a woman, uhm, of Irish descent working in a the business world of, if I’m correct. Is that correct?

09:10 Theresa Right.

Lynn Banez Okay, and then over here. You guys have I think worked something out on how you were going to…

09:15 Soraya All right, uhm, this is Jean and the two, ah, things that I think, uhm, makes up her identity in terms of diversity was the first that she has a background and a strong Irish background from this, uhm, from one side of the family and Czechoslavakian from the other side. And the second thing is that she is a, ah, a woman and just the whole, ah, issue of empowerment and being powered as a woman in today’s society makes up Jean.

09:45 Lynn Banez Okay, Jean?

Jean This is Steve. I’d like to introduce Steve and in speaking with Steve two, two things came across to me that, uhm, Steve has a strong faith in God. And believes that, uhm, from a diversity standpoint that, ah, he identifies as a, as a White male and believes in empowerment for both himself and for others and feels that’s important in today’s society in recognizing differences in a multicultural environment.

10:20 Lynn Banez Okay, and Steve.

Steve Ah, I don’t wanna mispronounce your name.

10:25 Soraya Soraya.

Steve This is Soraya. Uhm, her background is from Ecuador, uhm, she really identifies with, uhm, the culture from there. She’s lived there in two different occasions. Uhm, moving to United States and then back to Ecuador for a while. And she also, uhm, mentioned strong bonds with her family her family and, and particularly with her sister.

10:45 Open questions: Focus on group

Lynn Banez Okay, all right. I have a question, after you having gone through this little experience, ah, this morning. What, how was it for you to hear what someone else had heard about you? Were they accurate? Do you think, “gee, in that little snippet and when they introduced me that was right on that, that’s exactly how I would most likely view my world or slightly off, or completely off. Sometimes that happens. Can you, can you share how, how that was to hear someone else identify? How you identified?

11:20 Theresa Sure! Uhm, I’d be happy to, I, when Julius was describing me, uhm, I identified with, I think one of the things that, that has formed me is certainly being a woman in a male dominated field. The Irish I’ve always kept separate from that, and he combined the two.

11:35 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm. So how was that for, how was that for you that he combined the two?

11:40 Theresa It was, uhm, my immediate reaction was to say, no and then as I waited for everyone else to speak, I thought you, you know, that probably also had formed me being Irish in business because now I begin to think about the people that I was surrounded by.

12:00 Lynn Banez So your first, your first reaction was “no, that, that’s wrong, stop.”

Theresa Right, right.

Paraphrase: Individual Focus

Lynn Banez And then, “Hmm, maybe there’s something to what he had to say, something that I need to look at and reflect on.” What, what about others?

12:10 Araya I felt that when, uhm, Theresa was saying that I was part, uhm, South American and part North American, it sounded, the situation was very current and actually I always think of it as more, something of my past, the fact that I was born in South America and I have an American father and you brought it up in my adulthood and I was like well, you know, it has nothing to do with the moment. So it’s also an interesting element to consider, to rethink.

Therapy Tapes: Group Microskills Assignment

12:35 Summary and linking

Lynn Banez Okay. Does, does anyone else want to share because I think one of the things I’m beginning to hear is sort of a theme that sometimes people don’t accurately capture what we, you know, send out and then sometimes is our information correct, then how do we work with all those assumptions and then how do we work with all those assumptions in our groups for the rest of the day. So is, other people, do you have positive experience or experiences where you thought, I don’t want to say negative experiences, well experiences that you thought that wasn’t exactly right?

13:10 Minimal Encourager

Soraya When Steve was describing, I think he nailed it down when he said my strong ties to, ah, my cultural background.

13:15 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Soraya Uhm, because that is in the forefront both as in my past experience and my current experience.

13:25 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Positive Asset Search: Strong family ties

Soraya And I guess the second, uhm, item that he brought up as my second identity was the strong family ties and I guess what was interesting for me was I, I guess I’ve always combined that with the cultural backgrounds.

13:40 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Soraya I’ve never saw them as two separate things, so that was interesting for me.

13:45 Lynn Banez Okay, Steve, you have…

Steve Yeah, uhm, when, when Jean was describing me she, ah, used the term White and I never actually said that I was a White individual and, uhm, I just, I just thought it was interesting that she brought that up.

14:00 Lynn Banez How was that to hear that?

Steve Uhm, it was interesting. I really didn’t know what to think of it.

14:05 Lynn Banez So right now that’s sort of in an unknown pool for you.

Steve Yeah.

Lynn Banez Okay. Now how does it, how is it for you who have spoken and heard that you, your, ah, reflections about somebody weren’t quite accurate? How is, how is that sitting with you or…

14:20 Jean For me in making assumption…

14:25 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Jean Uhm, which is something I try not to do, I feel as though I misrepresented Steve in making an assumption there and I saw him react as I, I said Steve, I saw you react as I was saying –

14:35 Steve Right.

Jean – uhm, what I was saying. And what, if I think back the exact word you said is an “American”.

14:40 Steve Yes.

14:45 Jean So, and there that’s something for me to look at.

14:50 Lynn Banez So you made the connection when he said American to, to White.

Jean Exactly.

14:55 Lynn Banez And yet we have several people here that I think would say I’m an American.

Jean Right.

15:00 Lynn Banez And several people who probably wouldn’t identify as White.

Jean Right.

Lynn Banez So again, we have to be kind of aware of what, who we are, what our assumptions and biases are and what other people might bring in because that shades and colors how we interpret the information that they gave us because we’ve put it through our filters and as our group moves on through the day, one of the things that we, I’m going to encourage you to do as we examine how diversity has impacted your life or has, you know, how it’s played out in your life is how do I begin then to, ah, reach and look through the other lens, the lens of the person looking at me and assessing me and understanding what they bring to the table so that I can be more accurate in my communications and we can be more accurate in our dialogue together because we’ve got to work together as a group. And if we don’t address this early on, we have, as you can see, just in roughly ten minutes perhaps, we’ve had a multiple opportunity for miscommunication. So, uhm, uhm, you wanna…

16:05 Julius Well, what I wanted to mention, ah, is that, ah, uhm, when I, uhm, had described Theresa I, I actually projected how I would classify myself, uhm, onto Theresa, uhm, because Theresa had mentioned that she never actually thought of the fact that her being Irish and a woman in the business world whereas for myself I do, ah, conscientious think that, you know, I am Afro-American and I am a male in business world, so I, I do, uhm, identify with, you know, with your, with your ethnicity in, in terms of business.

16:40 White privilege

16:45 Lynn Banez So for some people because of their race or ethnic background, they’re faced to, to really look at it day to day. Every day I have to look at not only my ethnicity, my culture and that I’m a male in, in the working world, you know, in the business profession, but I also have to look at I’m a person of color entering in. So I, it’s that’s very closely tied for me. So that’s why I wanted to make it very closely tied for Theresa.

Therapy Tapes: Group Microskills Assignment

17:10 UNKNOWN Right, right.

Lynn Banez Is that –

17:15 Julius Exactly.

Lynn Banez – accurate?

Julius Exactly. I, I just felt that, uhm, and, and it’s kind of funny when we talk about, ah, you know, ah, ethnicity and multicultural because I, I do feel that being an Afro-American you, ah, you have a tendency to categorize yourself as being a Black male, ah, and whether it be a male dominated or a woman dominated, uhm, you always have a tendency to put your ethnicity in there. Uhm, whether it makes a difference or not and, and that’s, ah, what I, uhm, did when I was, ah, basically Theresa’s background or her situation.

17:50 Male privilege

17:55 Jean See, and that’s interesting because I, I, I– my work experience in a male dominated environment and the fact that I was the oldest of the three girls, I never saw the gender difference. To me, I was who I was. My achievements I pushed through, I was empowered so I didn’t feel, I didn’t see gender difference until I bumped against it at one point in a business career and I didn’t identify it. It wasn’t mine. It was very, very interesting to me and it forced me to kind of look at the fact that there were differences and those do have an impact on whatever group or environment that you’re working in. Yeah, it’s real interesting.

18:30 Theresa And I think that that’s interesting what, what Julius said is for me in business it has always been the gender first. And then the second part of that is and particularly in my last position where so much of the regional office was in Boston and there was for the– there was a lot of Irish out of the, the Boston office so that really became kind of the, the sub, the sub characteristic.

19:05 Julius Right.

Jean uhm, and but it’s always, and I have two older brothers, so, uhm, I had very, I’m also very comfortable competing in a male dominated environment because I always have. Uhm, but it’s, it’s that would be my first characteristic would be that and then, the, the ethnicity would be the second.

19:30 Lynn Banez One, one of the things that I’m aware of is one, we’re, we’re generating a lot of themes that, and strands that we can work on throughout the day. Uhm, the other things that I’m aware of is one of those themes seems to be gender related issues, of gender, and how it plays into, ah, diversity and what I’m struck by is, you know, we have more women here today in our group that men, and how that, ah, will play. And then, you know, we know we’re going to lose Julius shortly.

20:05 Focus on cultural context: Gender

Lynn Banez And then, you know, how that, how that theme will play out for the rest of the group. So I have that as sort of a, as a leader, you know, just kind of in the back of my mind going, uhm, you know, how is this going to play out over time and kind of wanting to know and check in with both of you how it feels to be maybe put in a place where you have to speak for your gender but that wouldn’t be where I would necessarily want you to speak from because, just like I wouldn’t want you speak, you know, about all African-Americans or all, you know. What do you guys think? What, what have you guys heard so far when you, when you hear people kind of stressing their female gender?

20:45 Julius Well, I think personally for me, uhm, it kind of makes me acknowledge the fact that, ah, that gender does play a role. Uhm, outside of this conversation I probably would have, would have never, ah, thought twice about it because I am a male and, you know, business is dominated by males so therefore, you know, I wouldn’t think twice about it because to me it’s just natural. It’s, that’s the way it is. And, ah, I don’t, I don’t, you know, now just listening to, uhm, the ladies here, it’s just, ah, kind of makes me think a little bit that, you know, hey! maybe gender does, you know, make a difference in a business place. Maybe when I’m walking around and I see that young lady or, you know, as we’re passing, you know, is she actually thinking that because she’s a woman, she’s, she’s, she’s not supposed to, ah, approach me or she’s not supposed to make suggestions so I think that gender does in essence, ah, play a role but, ah, like I mentioned before I probably would never thought twice about it, ah, prior to having this group session because it’s a male dominated world and you don’t stop to think about, ah, you know, she’s a woman and, and you’re a man. It’s just a given that your roles are, your roles are, you know, that’s just my personal take on it.

22:05 Lynn Banez Steve, was there anything else that you wanted, wanted to address?

Steve Well, I can certainly identify with being a minority, uhm, as, as, the two of you would explained in your personal or your business relations, you’re the minority. Uhm, when I’m taking classes, uhm, I’m currently, ah, in the counselor, uhm, classes and it’s very much female dominated. And, ah, I certainly understand maybe not a 100% what you guys are going through but I certainly understand what it’s like to be in an environment where you’re a minority in terms of gender anyways.

22:35 Summarizing

22:40 Lynn Banez So I think what we are saying in the beginning of, of your group experience really is that there’s a real richness to the diversity of this group the small group that’s, that’s here, ah, today, ah, to talk about how diversity has impacted your lives. But also that, that makes our work all the more complex because group works or group work is complex anyway. And not it’s complex times however many people are here times all your ethnic backgrounds, your culture, your race, your gender, your sexual orientation, your religion. We can go around, around, around. Whew! You know, I don’t know I’m just, I can just get a little bit exhausted as the leader thinking about how, how all that, ah, can play out and may play out over the, over the course of the day.

Therapy Tapes: Group Microskills Assignment

23:30 Pacing, time management

23:35 Lynn Banez Uhm, ah, I’m aware of the time and I wanna make sure that Jul, get, gets off and, ah, on time and gets to his destination. Ah, so perha– perhaps here I am also aware that the, the group is kind of, oh, yeah, kind of pulling the reins and saying we’re ready to go to that next stage. We’re ready to go. We’re ready to go. And I probably could just take you right through that. It would, would be nice because I’m would kind of have you here. Uhm, that’s my way of saying we’re gonna miss you Julius when, when you leave.

24:05 Theresa So will Steve.

Lynn Banez It’s right. Is there anything else anybody, ah, needs or wants to say before we wrap up this first, ah, session and this, our short time with Julius.

24:20 Theresa We’re gonna miss you Julius.

UNKNOWN Yes.

Theresa It’s nice having you here.

Lynn Banez Yeah, Well you– can we begin to use I statements and speak for yourself?

24:25 I statements

Theresa Oh, I’ll miss you Julius. It was good to have you here.

24:30 Jean I’ll miss you Julius, it’s good to see you.

24:35 Steve It was nice meeting you.

Araya Nice meeting you and having you the warm presence by my side here.

24:40 Soraya Good luck.

Julius It– well it was, it was nice, ah, interacting with such a small group, ah, for my brief stint here. I did, ah, learn a little bit about Theresa, ah, which I’ll probably take with me and if I happen to cross paths with you out there I will, ah, remember, ah, our conversation.

25:00 Lynn Banez And thank you so much again, Julius, for taking the time this morning.

Julius You’re welcome. Yeah.

25:10 PORTIONS OF A PREVIOUS GROUP SESSION LED BY ALLEN IVEY Viewing this segment now will help provide context for rest of Lynn’s session THEME CENTERED SESSION: EXPLORING WHITE MALE PRIVILEGE This segment is discussed later in Lynn’s group. You may view or save for later.

25:20 Allen E. Ivey First of all, I’d like to say thank you for letting me come in as the second team. Ah, Lynn has stepped out for a moment and you guys have just finished the community genogram exercises as we all know and, ah, I’ve enjoyed watching you. But also, in this particular thing I’d like to demonstrate how I might teach you actually in a group class, ah, that specific skill of focusing. And, ah, I wanna hope I’ve got enough here. I need to have one myself, and we may have to do little sharing.

25:55 Jean Steve and I can share.

Allen E. Ivey I thought you could share with me. Ah, and, in the early stages pf practice with these microskills I think it’s quite okay to have a cheat sheet. And by the way I’m glad I’ve got one right at the moment. And, ah, what I’d like, one way to practice the skills of focusing which is learning how to tell multiple stories is to practice it in the group itself just consciously. Now you’re not going to do what we’re gonna do now, in a group you didn’t do that before but to emphasize the importance of multiple stories, ah, we can do a little practice now. And the way I like to do this is, ah, for me to demonstrate it with just one person, ah, and if it’s okay with you Julius I’d like to demonstrate it with you.

26:40 Julius That’s fine.

Structuring: Individual Focus

Allen E. Ivey And follow up on some of those cultural issues. And, ah, what I’ll do is go back to your community genogram and, ah, ask you, ah, to share some of the stories and main things that comes from that genogram. And I’m gonna do this on a one on one basis with you and we’ll kinda go down this list together.

27:00 Julius Okay.

27:05 Allen E. Ivey And first we’ll sort of focus on the individual. Could you tell me, Julius, a story about your community genogram that occurs to you as you think about where you were raised and grew up.

27:20 Julius Ah, in, in, in terms of, ah, could you actually elaborate on that a little more?

27:25 Allen E. Ivey Ah, when you grew up you said you grew up in Pennsylvania.

27:30 Julius Well, well, actually I, I’ve, ah, I went to school in Pennsylvania.

Allen E. Ivey Uh-hmm.

Julius Ah, I grew up in, ah, New Jersey.

27:35 Allen E. Ivey Uh-hmm.

Julius Uhm, most of, ah, you know, ah, my experiences are from New Jersey.

27:40 Allen E. Ivey Uh-hmm.

Therapy Tapes: Group Microskills Assignment

Self-in-relation

Julius Ah, it’s, ah, the individual, ah, I think is, is, is made up from the community and I think I came from the community, ah, that offered a lot of diversity from a lot of different, ah, groups. And, ah, from being in, in from being in that, in that, ah, type of setting and growing up in that type of setting. I think that, ah, I’ve acquired, ah, you know, ah, different, uhm, ah, different personality traits from, from different cultures.

28:10 Allen E. Ivey Uh-hmm.

Julius And I, I think that is, ah, you know, that, that is something that most likely occurs in that type of diverse –

28:20 Allen E. Ivey Uh-hmm.

Julius – ah, area.

Allen E. Ivey And so how has it been for you, Julius, growing up in that community where diversity been so important identifying yourself as a member of the community?

28:30 Julius Well, it’s, uhm, you know, it, it, affected me in, in a lot of different ways. Ah, the biggest way, ah, is social, uhm, growing up in a, in a diverse area like that, uhm, you know, I, I’ve meet different people.

28:40 Allen E. Ivey Uh-hmm.

Julius And, ah, it has taught me to appreciate, ah, different cultures and different value systems. And, and also, ah, helped me to realize that, you know, my culture is not the only culture. And, ah, that’s, ah, help me to become a well-rounded, ah, individual.

28:55 Allen E. Ivey Uh-hmm.

Julius And, and it helped, it helps me to, ah, communicate with a lot of different people from different, ah, backgrounds.

29:00 Allen E. Ivey Great. Thank you Julius. What I was trying to do there, ah, group was to focus on I statements and, ah, because I’m trying to get at the skill of focusing on individual and Julius you kind of threw me a little curve when you immediately came about with your culturally diverse point of view and what you actually had from our frame of reference in this, in the microskills as you had an emphasis on you, the individual, but you also co– co– made that co-equal with it what I’ve called the cultural environmental context issues of diversity, family and community.

29:35 Julius Uh-hmm.

Next, we see an example of attending to ethnical/racial difference between leader and member

Allen E. Ivey Ah, we talked, ah, in our book of course about, sometimes about the person as community.

29:40 Julius Uh-hmm.

29:45 Allen E. Ivey Ah, we talked, ah, in our book of course about, sometimes about the person as community. You’re really talking very much there and we’d say that you had a focus on you and a focus on you, yourself in a relationship.

29:55 Julius Uh-hmm.

Allen E. Ivey One of my concerns in group work and counseling is too often focus just on the individual.

30:00 Julius Okay.

Humor can be useful

30:00 Allen E. Ivey You gave the, you gave the final exam answer already. Great, okay. Ah, so, so that’s— to, to cover two focus dimensions individual and cultural. Another focus dimension really is, ah, when you start focusing on a group leader. And right now I’m the group leader. Now how does it feel talking to me? Because you identify as an Afro-American. How does it feel talking to me, a White male?

30:25 Julius Uhm…

Allen E. Ivey European-American male.

Julius It, it, it feels, ah, kind of awkward because I do believe that there is a distinct difference between, uhm, the Afro-American culture and per se the White male culture.

30:40 STOP TAPE WHAT DO YOU THINK OF ALLEN’S INTERVENTION?

30:45 Julius Ah, it, it’s tough sometimes, uhm, because, ah, the communication, I mean, uhm, my perception of life and your perception of life, ah, of course is, is different. But in general it’s, it’s the step that we go through, ah, in life so it’s kinda, it’s kinda a little bit difficult to communicate, uhm, and that’s, and, and I think that’s just a, a comfort zone and, and since I’m kind of, ah, just getting to know you, it’s kind of hard to wanna…

31:15 Allen E. Ivey You haven’t talked to me before.

Julius Yeah, it’s just kinda hard to, ah, disclose information.

Allen E. Ivey Yeah, and I, I could say here that, ah, ah, I loved your final answer –

31:20 Julius Uh-hmm.

Allen E. Ivey – the person and the community. And actually right about now the person and the community.

31:25 Julius Uh-hmm.

Here and now focus

Allen E. Ivey But when, you know, to, to share of that and, ah, least that to beginning, I would ask you, I would ask you one question –

31:35 Julius Sure.

Allen E. Ivey – and that is, ah, ah, how did you feel, ah, when I said how does it feel– how did you feel when I ask you how it felt working with a White male.

31:40 Julius Ah, little bit of tension there.

31:45 Allen E. Ivey Uh-hmm.

Julius But because I think so often in, in this I, ah, I think there is a, ah, problem amongst the races and sometimes– it’ just, it’s just a little, there’s a little tension there. And it kinda threw me back because when you so– specified that you were White male then that kind of, ah, that threw me back actually. If you would have just said that, ah, you as, you know, and, and, ah, given me the name it probably would have been a little bit different but when you specified that you’re a White male, I think it, uhm, aroused just a little bit of, ah, a little bit tension.

32:15 Allen E. Ivey How do you feel about now? I, I, ah, I don’t wanna push you too much. How do you feel now we talked about it, it did?

32:20 Julius Uhm, I feel just a little bit more, I, I feel just a little bit more comfortable.

32:25 Allen E. Ivey Uh-hmm.

Julius Uhm, not much but like I said its, its…

32:30 Allen E. Ivey A little bit more.

Julius Yeah, it, not much but I think it, I think within the group, I think it doe– ah, it does, does take time to wanna share, ah, share with an individual.

32:35 Soliciting GROUP feedback

32:40 Allen E. Ivey So we’ve been focusing so far on the individual, the group leader and relationship to you. We might change the focus for a moment to the group and how has the group. And how has the group observed us talking? What have been your internal thoughts and feeling as a group as you were listening to me?

32:55 Jean What struck me Julius, as you were speaking is and correct me if I’m wrong but I’m, I’m hearing you say I’m not sure if we’re communicating, is there almost a translation difference between what you’re saying and the emotion and who you are coming forward and is it being received as I’m wanting it to be said. Are you speaking different language? Is there a cultural difference that’s in the way here?

33:25 Julius Uh-hmm. I, I think there is a, a bit of a cultural difference, uhm, because I feel that if I actually explain myself as individual, ah, within my environment I, I think it is like a feeling that you wouldn’t understand, ah, that type of feeling and, ah, that is kind of the feeling that I get when I’m talking to a “White males”. It’s much– it more like, ah, you wouldn’t understand it’s not that I wanna disclose it to you but it– you wouldn’t understand.

33:55 Jean It strikes me as you’re speaking I feel extremely comfortable and I feel as though, I wanna know a little bit more about you what you feel may not be coming across. It’s very interesting so I, I personally never thought of that in terms of cultural language and what’s not said.

34:10 Julius Uh-hmm.

34:15 Araya I heard that Julius was, uhm, open and expressing, uhm, himself and responding to your question was naturally hesitant to share not so much, I didn’t hear so much because he’s a White anything, or White male, but because we’re in a group and it’s a new situation and you’re naturally guarded. That’s what I heard.

34:35 Soraya I actually felt, ah, personally a little bit of tension when, for myself when you started talking between one another because you know, with the different backgrounds, a White male and a Black male and just from my personal experience in the past, that has brought up some tension, uhm, and sometimes negative. So even right now I feel a little tension for both of you. So…

35:05 UNKNOWN Is there a reason why you would bring up a question that would arouse possible tension first rather than a question that would arouse, that would relate to commonality first?

Therapy Tapes: Group Microskills Assignment

35:15 Leader self-disclosure

Allen E. Ivey Ah, first of all , it’s a demonstration of skills. Secondly, secondly, first of all it’s a demonstration of skills. Secondly, ah, I think the whole issue of, of color is so terribly important. And part of this issue really is, ah, White privilege. Ah, Peggy McIntosh speaks about White privilege. Ah, there’s an entitlement that goes in with being White, ah, and I think that, ah, that your point, Julius about, ah, a lot of things that aren’t laid on the table when you deal with issues of diversity. Uhm, and it almost, it almost, it almost makes me cry, ah, when I think about the feelings of difference that are, there are challenges to move beyond, issues of color and gender, and I appreciate this. Ah, so male privilege and, and I think that the earlier discussion, you got a little insight into some male privilege. There is White privilege that, ah, well enjoy who are White and, ah, that is a, to me its a troubling issue.

36:20 Privilege and power as important diversity issues

Julius Well, I, I, I mean just to elaborate on that topic of, ah, White privilege, I think that, ah, when you’re actually the individual, ah, being oppressed, okay, you, you, you realize it a lot more as opposed to you being the one who has a privilege, uhm, and I just like to, we were back to my conversation with Theresa, uhm, when she had made a statement about the, ah, you know, gender, her being a woman, I, I– not once, ah, thought about it twice and the reason being because I wasn’t directly affected by it.

36:55 Theresa But when you were speaking with Julius before, uhm, I actually, uhm, felt like I wanted to help him felt, felt you were on the spot, uhm, when you first began, you know, when you first began speaking you and Allen. So that was my feeling.

37:15 Focus on group and feeling

Allen E. Ivey Uh-hmm. Did other people have that feeling and wanted to help?

37:20 Jean Absolutely, and in thinking and talking about oppressed, the, the cycle of oppression and thinking in terms of okay, we’re talking about oppression here. Have I been oppressed? And the answer is yes, and key into that feeling and knowing that there is a certain amount powerlessness even though as an individual you can feel empowered, in a community perhaps not which is interesting. Uhm.

37:50 Summary and Linking

37:55 Allen E. Ivey And, and I would just sort of reflect for a moment in terms of skill area. We kinda move to, we kind of– in this term for the microskills we kinda move to as a group talking about privilege and oppression this kind of the topic that goes along with issues of diversity. And as an individual, as a leader, as members we all partake in this in some way and that kind of what we we’ve call a, a topic right now, a, a main theme of focus. Ah, I might, ah, sort of follow this up. Ah, we’ve looked, ah, I’m wondering how this, and we’ve kind of heard too how a couple of women have felt about this and that would represent kind of a focus the two of you, ah, particular represent at least sub-group and you came in and I heard from you but you kinda nodding your head I think. Ah, would you add to this in terms of how women as a subgroup within our larger group might, might feel, your perspective?

38:55 Araya From, uhm, a minority perspective or from a…

39:00 Allen E. Ivey Ah, a, a women’s perspective.

Araya Women’s perspective.

Allen E. Ivey Or, if you wanna use other, whatever is comfortable.

39:05 Araya Okay, uhm, I, you know, I have difficulty personally just having, uhm, because of my, uhm, religious orientation, Tibetan Buddhist based.

39:15 Allen E. Ivey Uh-hmm.

Series of Minimal Encouragers

Araya I honestly have a very difficult time seeing differences.

39:20 Allen E. Ivey Uh-hmm.

Araya And, uhm, I haven’t had much of a problem, uhm, with, uhm, biases as I’m aware of it.

39:25 Allen E. Ivey Uh-hmm.

Araya Because I’m completely, uhm, focused on the idea of, uhm, being involved with people from a human standpoint.

39:40 Allen E. Ivey Uh-hmm.

Araya From, uhm, compassionate standpoint. And, uhm, looking at differences as, as secondary to how do we get along and, uhm, so even if there have been differ– differences let me put it that way and difficulties whether in a business environment or an academic environment, they’re immediately, uhm, ah, approached from this idea of compassion and understanding and, uhm, amenability and a working, you know, how do we work together? How do we cooperate in the best possible ways so, I can’t honestly say that I have, uhm, a, uhm, broad base of issues to bring up, you know, related to, uhm, prejudice.

40:20 Allen E. Ivey One thing I can’t help notice in that word diversity is the richness and the differences of response that we have around this topic, ah, the different views, ah, the different meaning, the different sense that we make. Scott we’ve not heard –

40:35 Steve Steve.

Focusing in silent member

Allen E. Ivey – from you. Steve, am I putting you on the spot too much?

40:40 Steve No, not at all

Allen E. Ivey Steve.

Steve Yes.

Allen E. Ivey Can I, can we hear from you?

40:45 Steve Yeah, no, uhm, when the topic of diversity and oppression and, uhm, oppressors come up, I’ve just kind of been cringing for the last five, ten minutes just because I’m, you know, what people would see as a white male and, uhm, you know, I can relate very much to how you feel. It’s like you know what? There are differences but more importantly I felt that there are co– a lot of commonalities. We all have a soul in my belief system and we all have the, the, the ability for compassion and to understand one another. But a lot of people I feel, I can’t look beyond those differences and that’s something that I carry, that, that I carry, ah, that reaction its like how is this person seeing me? Are they seeing me as an oppressor or somebody that they could legitimately have a one on one conversation with and really break through those, uhm, barriers.

Therapy Tapes: Group Microskills Assignment

41:35 Summary

41:40 Allen E. Ivey Clearly oppression and privilege are becoming part of the dialogue. Ah, in terms of, ah, we’re gonna have to wind up this segment briefly, ah, I appreciate your letting me coming in here for a moment and for sharing the, the concept to focus with you a little bit more. I might just sort of summarize. We’ve kind of, I’m gonna ask you all kind of for a final statement and thoughts in a moment but we have some feelings going on in the group in terms that, that issue of where do each of us stand? I think we recognize that each of us sees it a bit differently. Ah, we’ve seen that certainly we have the subgroups of men and women, ah, people of color, ah, we talked about White privileged, ah, we’ve focused a little bit upon you as an individual and then we kind of move it more towards a broader sharing and thank you for the sharing. I did this focusing on myself which I raised some real issues, ah, about leader bringing this things in. We might think about that more. And we did get in to some cultural environmental context issues, we did bring up the spiritual issue and we could have focused on that more in terms of how would, ah, a Buddhist, how would a catholic, how would a protestant, how would, ah, somebody from the, for another perspective come from, this issues of social class in terms of diversity we could have looked up. And we certainly could have followed up on your issue of community because I really felt very strongly that person and community was so important in your particular comments and thank you for sharing that. Ah, I’m wondering if– as we kinda wind this up or if we could go around the circle and sort of share, ah, anything you want but what stands out from you, for you or how are you feeling. And maybe we’ve not talked a lot about guts, feelings and emotions. So I’ll give you the choice of what’s in your gut or what stands out from you as you close.

43:30 Soraya Okay, uhm, for me is, ah, I feel that we’ve– I feel proud, not proud but excited to be in this process because it seems like everyone is being very honest. And in an honest way we’re addressing, uhm, touchy issues that in other circumstances we may actually just avoid completely in, in talking about the differences and the similarities. So I’m actually excited about the process.

44:00 Allen E. Ivey Thank you.

Jean It’s exciting to me that we actually touched on the cycle of oppression and being oppressed identifying for me, uhm, having been in some training in this area that in every community group, identifying that makes the communication flow and starts closing the gap on some of the differences. So I feel good and I feel like wanna talk about this for five more hours.

44:25 Steve Ah, I’d like to echo the felling about just being comfortable and being able to share my honest feelings and understanding. Oh, I just got a feeling that everyone understands that I’m coming from a different perspective and, and I’m very open to that.

44:45 Julius Uhm, in this particular group setting I’m, I’m pretty pleased to see that everybody, ah, kind of had, ah, given their feedback, uhm, without, you know, inputting your personal feelings about it and, ah, it’s kinda nice to know that for the short period of time that we’ve been here together, ah, we’ve, you know, conjured up enough courage to, ah, to speak on touchy issues like that. I was very, very impressed with the, the group’s, ah, openness towards those, ah, topics.

45:15 Araya I feel very comfortable and, ah, delighted in our differences and our ability to share them. And, ah, very much at ease with my own, ah, you know, variety of, ah, points of view. And, uhm, my ability to bring them forth and just to see what happens.

45:35 Theresa I echo everything that’s been said. I feel, uhm, I feel connected to the group. Uhm, I think that we’ve made a lot of progress in a very short period of time. People have been very honest about what they’re willing to share. And, and I feel that, you know, from the group, so I, I feel comfortable that we have, uhm, an open ground for discussion here.

46:00 Allen E. Ivey And I feel very thankful and appreciate of you all for letting me come in and, ah, sharing and, ah, it was, it was great. Ah, I’m going to miss you the rest of the day. And, ah, any other comments, ah, as we say the thanks for being here while you were here.

46:20 Julius You’re certainly welcome.

46:25 Allen E. Ivey It’s important stuff.

Jean I wanna say, uhm, thank you. Uhm, as we’re all training to, to go into this field, uhm, it heightens my awareness.

46:35 Allen E. Ivey Uh-hmm.

Jean And it keeps it in, in my mind and my heart that this is so important in, in dealing with, uhm, in people in groups and it’s been a wonderful experience for me. Thank you.

46:45 Julius Uhm, I’d just like to mention one more thing. I, I think that, ah, when you had addressed yourself to me early on, ah, in the group as being a White male, ah, and this is for future reference, I think that it does change, ah, the individual’s response when you identify yourself, ah, by, ah, you color or your, your ethnicity as opposed to just your birth name.

47:05 Allen E. Ivey Right.

Julius I, I think it does alter the response of individual.

47:10 Allen E. Ivey Yeah. Thank you all very much.

47:15 UNKNOWN Thank you.

47:20 SESSION 2, DIMENSION 2: GATHERING DATA AND STORIES This portion brings in some there and then stories from Allen’s group to the here and now of Lynn’s group. Gathering data

47:25 Lynn Banez Just wondering, ah, if you could fill me in. I know you had session, ah,, you know, earlier with Julius and with Allen, ah, leading the group and if you could just fill me in so we could, ah, pick up where that left off. What occurred, what was happening for you during that session.

47:40 Theresa Well, uhm, Allen was using the, uhm, the, the Microskills techniques.

47:45 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Theresa He gave us each a, uhm, a slip that had on it, you know, the subgroup, the group, the individual, the, ah, cultural context and the different subheadings. And then he presented a question to Julius and he was looking for Julius to focus on it from an individual perspective and what Julius was brought it in really form a community perspective.

48:05 Lynn Banez So you got you got some, ah, instructions. You got a handout and –

48:10 UNKNOWN Right.

Lynn Banez – were asked to follow and give feedback perhaps on what you.

48:15 Paraphrase

UNKNOWN Right.

Therapy Tapes: Group Microskills Assignment

Focusing: Individual and theme

Lynn Banez But I, I’m wondering not so much form, you know, an instructional linear of what happened, but more, what was, what was the process for you with a little but of the content of what happened in that session?

48:30 Jean Well, I, I was struck by the reactions of the group. I was struck by my own reactions to when Julius…

48:35 Lynn Banez Could you speak to that?

Jean Certainly, uhm, the question really that Allen used to start the discussion with Julius, uhm, was in context of, he self-identified as a White, White male –

48:50 There and then focus

Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Jean – talking to an Afro-American male.

Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Jean And putting in that context it triggered a, the multicultural issue of some differences and how was that, it created a bit of tension, how was that for an Afro-American male to speak to a White, a White male.

49:05 Lynn Banez Iss– to moving from the there and then because it happen there and then because that happened there and then, and Julius isn’t here to really give us feedback and clarify things –

49:15 Jean Right.

Lynn Banez – if we can move that into the here and now.

49:20 Jean Uh-hmm.

Lynn Banez If I can hear your story now, Jean, about how that, ah, tension was for you and what your reactions were.

49:25 Draws out individual story

Jean Right, to rephrase that and, and really speak from, form me.

49:30 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Jean I felt he tension of the difference between the race and the cultural context. I started thinking about the cycle of oppression and how I have felt oppressed and the role that I may have played as being the oppressor as well and how that played out in their conversation and how I’ll then carry that when I’m working with groups.

50:00 Personal self-disclosure Paraphrase

50:05 Jean Right.

Lynn Banez – but racism in particular.

Jean Right. Racism and perhaps not identifying as I’m working with a group because earlier in a group, uhm, making an assumption, making assumption that all is said, my making an assumption that all is said –

50:20 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Jean – when there’s so much more value and maybe there are things that aren’t being said or aren’t being heard that I need to listen to and cue in to.

50:30 Lynn Banez So maybe there, there are things that aren’t being, ah, said. Maybe things are being spoken through our nonverbal language.

50:35 Encourage/restatement

Jean Yeah.

Lynn Banez Ah, and we need to be aware of that. What about other people. Were there other things?

50:40 Theresa Yeah, it’s similar to, to Jean I actually had said it in, in the there and then but I’ll speak to it in the here and now. It’s, uhm, when he would, when Julius was speaking, uhm, to Allen, I really felt a need to help him. I really felt that he was almost put on the spot.

51:00 Parallel Self-Disclosure

Lynn Banez So you wanted to rescue –

Theresa Yeah.

Lynn Banez – Julius.

51:05 Theresa I did. Uhm, and I held back from doing that but I could just –

Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

51:10 Theresa – feel it, you know, in my stomach that, that I wanted to do that. And, and, and, he, he made what I thought was a very good point which really kind of got me thinking was he said that in trying to explain to Allen that part of it, part of it was not much that he didn’t want to share by that Allen could really never understand because he’s a White male.

51:30 Oppression and privilege

Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Theresa That he felt oppressed.

Lynn Banez Well what about you? Can, can you, can you unders– understand like can, can you?

51:40 Theresa When he said that it made me think about, uhm, from the stand point of being a woman –

51:45 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Theresa – experience oppression as a woman, that men cannot completely ever understand that because they have privilege of being male and inherently in the privilege of being male, they, they can’t really relate to not having that privilege.

Therapy Tapes: Group Microskills Assignment

52:05 Summary and Linking

Lynn Banez Okay, you, you both kind of raised ah, a similar theme or story at least that I heard and that is somehow in that last session you both felt you, you had to resist. You said you wanted to jump in, but you didn’t and that also seems to me to be a, a resisting or I need to stop myself kind of story. I’m not sure what everyone else said, but before we process that, I would kind of like to link this back to our earlier session when people talked about, you know, as they introduced you how they heard you talk about yourself and describe yourself. And then we’ve got some, uhm, correction on that and you spoke a little bit, ah, to clarify more so who you are and how you make meaning then out of the world based on how you identify yourself either as, you know, men or woman, ah, European-American, someone who has a South American history, uhm, you know, so many other things, ah, that were brought up earlier. I was wondering if we could go back to that a little bit and talk about from that perspective. And I know that all of you were given a, uhm, a homework assignment to do a community genogram. And we don’t really need to stop and get them unless you feel like you need them to refer back to your neighborhood, but what I would like you to do is to kind of link through what you were feeling in the session with Allen and Julius to how you see the world based bon how you self-identified in the earlier session and then what connection does that have to the neighborhood in which you grew up.

54:00 Jean Well, that’s an easy one for me. I grew up in, ah, a small town in Connecticut.

54:10 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Jean Privileged upper middle class. There was only one square mile in town which had, uhm, low income housing.

54:20 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Jean And I would say 99% White, uhm, one percent being made up of any other race, so it was a very, uhm, interesting place to grow up because my, my development in my home base, I had trees, I had a very rural setting. Uhm, the homes were all five bedrooms with au pair suites. They were, there was privilege. And I didn’t know anything else growing up. This was the– some people were very accepting of one another, but when I found that when my parents would bring me to New York to expose me to other cultures that was extremely important.

55:05 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Jean Because we didn’t have that in our town. And so I grew up in kind of a multicultural family from an ethnicity perspective, because being several generations into the United States –

55:20 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Jean – but when my parents married both of their families up till this point had been in ethnic communities. One side of my family was from Irish descent.

55:30 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Jean One as from Czechoslovakian. And they actually got a dispensation from the Pope to get married because there were two distinct part s of unclear so that was stressed- bringing multiculturalism in to our individual household where in the community everybody was the same. We wore the same jeans, we wore the same shoes, we, everything was, was very much the same.

55:50 Lynn Banez Okay so, so if I her you, everything was the same growing up.

55:55 Paraphrase

Jean Very homogeneous, yes.

Lynn Banez And you didn’t have a lot of different. Then what I heard you say at least in, in the, our first session when you said well, you know, I have experience the world as a woman and that, you know, has been sometimes oppressive.

56:10 Jean Uh-hmm.

56:15 Lynn Banez And yet I’m not able to connect to exactly understanding what Julius is trying to help Allen to identify because I’m not gonna ever know that experience. Because…

56:25 Jean Okay.

Lynn Banez You just, ah, hang on for a second, because I think one of the things that happened is that we all have some kind of experience with being oppressed based on how we identify ourselves in any given moment. So can we exactly see based on someone else’s? Maybe not but maybe we can have some common ground and so what I find interesting to get back to both of your stories is that you almost defaulted back your story growing up. We’re all the same. Now we’re addressing tis tension. Here’s a White man and here’s a Black man, addressing this. I’m tense. I want to do something. I should say something. I should jump in but I can’t. And I just want, I just want you to think about that. So we haven’t heard from a couple other people, ah, in the group and I’m curious as to where you’re at right now, ah, Soraya and Steve and Araya. What’s happening for you?

57:30 Lynn brings out common group theme of oppression, We are seeing the group-in-relation. Let us view Lynn’s comment again.

57:35 Lynn Banez Hang on for a second you could have think one of the things that happened is that we all have some kind of experience with being oppressed based on how we identify ourselves in any given moment. So can we exactly see based on someone else’s? Maybe not but maybe we can have some common ground and so what I find interesting to get back to both of your stories is that you almost defaulted back to your story growing up. We’re all the same, Now we’re addressing this tension. Here’s a White man and here’s Black man addressing this. I’m tense. I want to do something. I should say something. I should jump in but I can’t. And I just want, I just want you to think about that. So we haven’t heard from a couple other people, ah, in the group and I’m curious to where you’re at right now. Ah, Soraya and Steve and Araya. What’s happening for you?

58:40 Soraya As to what happened between Julius and Allen or right now?

58:45 Lynn Banez Sure or both.

Self-disclosure

Soraya Uhm, well for me, ah, it– I also thought a little bit of tension when they…

58:55 Lynn Banez Can you, can you speak up just a little bit?

Soraya Oh, I, I also felt a little bit of tension when the dialogue started between both of them.

59:00 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Self-disclosure

Soraya Uhm, and for some reason it was more of like I think I was more nervous that somebody was gonna say the wrong thing that, I know this sounds really weird but I was afraid somebody was going to say something that would offend the other person. And I also didn’t know, you know, I’m like I hope they don’t say something along those lines or and that’s why I found that actually very interesting and I was very impressed that we were very as a group we were very honest and that made me relax –

59:30 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Soraya – as to okay it’s comfortable to sh– really share what we’re feeling.

59:35 Lynn Banez Okay, I’m hearing, uhms.

Self-disclosure, Parallel process

Araya Yeah, I she’s I could echo almost exactly what Soraya said and I’m wondering whether my response to you and your response to Julius has some kind of a cultural link in terms of our both having a South American background. I, I– my first thing was, oh gee this gonna, this gonna work out already they kinda get into an argument of some sort and my, my, my peaceful, ah, emphasis was, you know, all about well if they do then I wonder how we might, I might be able to help. Uhm, I thought everything turned out beautifully but that was my concern. It wasn’t either to save really or to, uhm…

01:00:15 Lynn Banez So it wasn’t from the perspective that Theresa was talking about but more so-

01:00:20 Araya No.

Lynn Banez – what if someone’s offended or hurt?

Araya Exactly.

01:00:25 Lynn Banez How might I help repair that?

Araya Right.

Lynn Banez in our group.

Araya Uh-hmm.

Steve From my standpoint, uhm, one of the first questions that was brought up to Julius from Allen was what was it like growing up at Pennsylvania and quickly he corrected him. And when I, when I heard him correct him I said, you know, to myself I’m like okay he’s pretty comfortable correcting the leader. He could hold his own.

01:00:50 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Steve And I mean, that was my internal dialogue although I felt very similar to what you guys were like I hope nobody says the wrong thing or offends anybody.

01:00:55 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

01:01:00 Steve But I’m, I also understood or I saw that there was some strength there that he could take care of himself.

01:01:05 Positive asset: Strength

Lynn Banez You know that, that’s really interesting what, what you’re all saying is that you wanted to be there, you were concerned about the conflict and you would hope that if conflict arose you would try to repair it, intervene, uhm, and do something that would help smooth that over I supposed. But yet none of you did that, I mean, not that you got the conflict but I’m also hearing that some of you sat back and didn’t share what you are saying. So it’s almost like on one hand I’m hearing you say if, you know, conflict came up I would say something I feel like We are very open and trusting and we could say anything and yet I’m not sure and you would need to give each other feedback if you all understood what everyone was, what you had just articulated.

01:01:50 Leader Focus

Araya Actually I did asked the leader, I said was there a point in bringing up something that would challenge, uhm, Julian, ah, Julius rather than, uhm, rather than bring up point of commonality. I, I –

01:02:05 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Araya – not wanting to challenge Allen but I wanted to question where he was coming from because I didn’t know. And it was partly also a protective approach on my, my…

01:02:15 Here and Now focus

Lynn Banez So how does that sit, sit with you, with you now? How do you that has affected you if it has in, in working with the group.

01:02:20 Araya Ah, my questioning or Allen’s approach?

01:02:25 Lynn Banez Your questioning.

Araya Uhm, well I think it, it brought forth with my emphasis is which is always about, uhm, commonality.

01:02:35 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Araya When I shake hands with or meet anyone it’s about what similarities do we share? How can we work or exchange to the best of our ability rather than how can we, you know, begin to tackle, you know, or argue in some way.

01:02:50 Reflects on there and then group process

Lynn Banez So that, that kind of leaves me bound to what I was just asking you to give each other feedback on is you just shared some, some stories about how you would, ah, help if there was a conflict or a misunderstanding, how you felt, ah, compassionate or empathy and concern that there might be conflict, how some of you, ah, resisted, ah, feeling like you needed to rescue or to jump in and to clarify. And yet, those, those…

01:03:20 Theresa My issue wasn’t conflict though.

01:03:25 Lynn Banez Okay, well your issue was?

Theresa Yeah, my issue wasn’t conflict. I didn’t feel a need to rescue him because I was concerned there was going to be a conflict.

01:03:30 Lynn Banez Okay.

Theresa I felt the need to rescue him because I felt he was being put on the spot.

01:03:35 Lynn Banez Okay, so it was around discomfort. How’s that?

01:03:40 Theresa Right.

Therapy Tapes: Group Microskills Assignment

Direct members to give feedback

Lynn Banez Okay, discomfort. What I, what I’m getting, what I’m trying to get at is can you give each other feedback? Can you hear what you have just said because you’ve said things that we’re not articulated in that second session with Allen and Julius. That in saying it now it becomes a spoken story. There it was not and yet you were saying, oh, we all knew this about each other. Did you really know about each other? I mean you might have, I’m just asking.

01:04:15 Theresa No, I didn’t.

Jean And I, I, I can’t say that I’ve shared that with anyone, uhm, you know, bringing up the genogram and identifying this– my role in talking and, and asking Julius about what wasn’t being said directly r elated back –

01:04:30 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Jean – to my development at that point where I didn’t have a diverse environment and I want to understand. I wanna be able to know everything.

01:04:40 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Jean Know what I don’t know.

Open question: Here and now

Lynn Banez So in the here and now what are you, what are you, what are you saying? What is…

Jean I’m, I’m left with the feeling, a, a thirst for knowledge. I want to develop my multicultural vocabulary if you will –

01:04:50 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Jean – so when I look at someone and, and going back to the first session –

01:04:55 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Self-disclosure: Taking personal responsibility

Jean – when I was speaking with Steve and I made an assumption and taking responsibility for it.

01:05:00 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Jean I made an assumption with Steve,

Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Jean I misinterpreted White American male for White male that perhaps I’ve got a lens on –

01:05:05 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Jean – that I need to work on.

Lynn Banez I think you just did it, didn’t you just do it there because I think you…

01:05:10 Steve I never, I never said White.

Lynn Banez You never said White and there you did it again.

01:05:15 Jean Right. So in coming there to work hard myself and take responsibility for, I have a lens here….

01:05:20 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Jean I found it interesting and I found it educational and I, I felt what Julius was communicating. He felt comfortable saying look, I’m feeling a little tension here.

01:05:30 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Jean And there are things that aren’t gonna be communicated because I’m an Afro– I’m an Afro-American male.

01:05:35 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Jean And you’re a White male and because you’ve identified that –

01:05:40 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Jean – there’s a gap.

Soraya Well I…

Jean Go ahead.

Self-disclosure, parallel process

Soraya Oh, I just– one observation I did have was I wonder if this would have been the same if si– ah, if would have felt the same thing had it been two Afro-American individuals or two White individuals.

01:05:50 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

01:05:55 Soraya Uhm, I think the tension for me was because there was a difference –

Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Steve Right.

Soraya – that was a obvious.

01:06:00 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Soraya And also spoken by both parties so I wonder if, if both individuals –

01:06:05 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Soraya – the interview or the conversation had been amongst individuals that right from the start found commonality had I ha– I don’t think I would have felt the tension that I felt when Julius and Allen were talking.

01:06:20 Lynn Banez Okay, let’s, let’s hang on that for a moment because one of the things that we’re doing is I think we’re struggling with, ah, there and then and, and here and now.

01:06:30 Jean Here and now.

Lynn Banez Here and now.

Jean Yeah.

Lynn Banez And in doing that we’re getting to some content, ah, talk and a little bit of process talk. But what I’m really curious about is what, what you’re feeling right, right now. You, ah, Soraya I think you just said you, you, you’re struggling with the tension or the?

01:06:55 Soraya I was, uhm, right now I’m, I’m very comfortable.

01:07:00 Lynn Banez Okay.

Soraya Uhm, and at the time the– then and there I was a little bit of tension.

01:07:05 Lynn Banez Okay. We– so what are?

Araya I’m feeling very comfortable as well but I didn’t wanna add one piece that we didn’t mention that, uhm, Julius had also mentioned was that his discomfort was not just in feeling that he might be understood but that he realized he was in a group and that the group process is such that there’s a certain amount of trust that has to occur before he feels he can even –

01:07:25 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Araya – begin to share or be willing to respond.

01:07:30 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Araya So his openness was sort of bracketed by that and then along with that the, the back, the male idea of different cultures relating.

01:07:40 Lynn Banez How might do you think that willingness to, to share and, and to take little more risks relates to, ah, how you self-identify, how you are as a multicultural being and, ah, given the context in which you grew up. We didn’t hear about everybody’s neighborhood and I don’t know that we’ll be able to hear about other people’s neighborhood but if you’re able to bring it in that’s fine but I’m more curious about in the here and now.

01:08:10 Personal self-disclosure

01:08:15 Soraya I– for me it like, I guess in my, just in my growing up, uhm, in South America in Ecuador, uhm, I– the community was very close knit. I mean there was definitely a lot more sharing, there’s a lot more, ah, less personal space I guess.

01:08:35 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Soraya And, just bringing back some of that, you know, lingo, but, ah, I guess because of that and just the big family outings and everything so always with a lot of people, it’s for me now it’s easy, or find it easy to op– open and share with individuals. At the same time, ah, I do believe that my upbringing was in certain degree homogenous in that there even though it’s different from the –

01:09:05 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Soraya – from the states within that culture it’s all Spanish speaking.

Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Soraya Everyone comes, you know, mostly Catholic.

01:09:10 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Soraya So, you know, within that context I found also homogenous environment.

01:09:15 Lynn Banez So you’re able to find that, that common, the common ground and easy, easily attached to it.

01:09:20 Soraya Right.

Therapy Tapes: Group Microskills Assignment

Confronting discrepancies

Soraya Which is given I think our group some sense of security and some sense of trust but what I, what I feeling as a leader is some resistance to moving that any further. Like well we can talk about things, we can talk about diversity but with the exception of that one, you know, session with Allen and Julius, well we really haven’t had conflict and well, gosh, I hope Lynn does and say anything that would maybe put us on the spot like that because I mean, we might have to address it, again. So, let’s just be, be nice to one another, but I hear you sometimes saying very different things.

01:10:00 Jean I can honestly say I can speak for myself –

Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

01:10:05 Jean – and that I’m enjoying the conflict as you saying cause it’s, it’s bringing up, it’s taking the veil down. It’s opening up the room to the differences and I find identifying the differences the important piece.

01:10:15 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Jean Because then there can be a common ground found.

01:10:20 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Jean And if I, if I’m not looking at Araya and understanding who she is and communicating makes it difficult in any kind of group situation or project or work or whatever –

01:10:30 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Jean – to really fully experience. What Araya…

Lynn Banez So what might you ask her to know to get to know her more? Because it sounds like you’re saying I wanna know more but I haven’t asked her anything.

01:10:40 Jean I always, and I, I haven’t heard, uhm, Araya I’d like to know a little bit more about, uhm, how you view differences? And how you, you work with the idea of differences? I’ve heard you talk about being comfortable with commonalities and pulling this in but it strikes me that you might be a little uncomfortable with working with differences or allowing for differences.

01:11:05 Concrete directive

Araya Actually it’s the other way around because I, I’ve, I’ve had a background that’s pretty rich, petty diversified, I’d been exposed to people who, uhm, I have a lot of empathy I think in my character, uhm, uhm, trade of empathy is very helpful. Uhm, along with that, uhm, because I grow up in South America an issue of class was very, uhm, predominant, uhm, and because of the impha– pathic thing I was always moving from family to the kitchen to be with people who were working for us and understand them and talk with them. It was my natural inclination, it wasn’t that I wasn’t trying to balance something out mentally.

01:11:45 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Araya Uhm, and then when we move to this country, uhm, we moved to New Canaan and, uhm, the world is very different in New Canaan that it had been in Valada, Peru or in, ah, Bogota Columbia. But, uhm, I always assimilated, you know, if I can use that word, ah, it doesn’t feel quite right to what actually happen but I always blended in or flexed with changes in my environment but my concern was always for the underdog, or for, uhm, the person I saw suffering or getting the lesser end of something. I’m the oldest of five kids. Part of it has to do with that and there are three girls and I’m the oldest of the three girls. So I identified with your comment about that. But because of all the differences I immediately can have some point of reference almost with anything that anybody has to say. I may not be Afro-American but, uhm, the person I was closest to in high school was, you know, I mean, I just, you know, there are just points of difference just disappear.

01:12:50 Structuring skill

Lynn Banez Cause I would, I would, I would like to try something I want, I want you to, to take a couple of risks with me if, if you will. The first thing I am, I’m ask everyone to do is for yourself, three words only, how you would identify? How you, ah, make meaning and sense out of the world cause what I hear right now is a common story for the group which is we’re all here and supportive of commonalities and all is nice with the world. And I don’t know that all is nice with the world in, in our lives and in our work and so I’m just curious let’s start first with who are we? Let’s go back to that. So if we could just, we could just even go right around.

01:13:40 Araya You want us to have three words?

Lynn Banez Three, three words for yourself.

Soraya That describe…

Lynn Banez That describe who you are.

01:13:45 Theresa Ethnically?

Lynn Banez Ah, however, however you want. Like you, aye– whatever you used in, in the morning, if you wanna use that again, if you wanna build on that, change that.

01:13:55 Araya Empathic, diversified and passionate.

01:14:00 Lynn Banez Okay.

Soraya Uhm, I would say woman, musician and Ecuadorian.

01:14:10 Steve I would say persistent, eager, uhm, but also I’d say kind of like the politician or the, the ka– the guy who smooth things over in the end.

01:14:20 Araya A diplomat.

Steve Diplomat, there you go.

01:14:25 Lynn Banez So if the smoothers, the diplomats and, oh, we wanna get along cause everyone can understand the diversity. Okay, continue.

01:14:30 Theresa Definitely a woman, uhm, Irish and driven.

01:14:40 Encouraging, eliciting meaning

01:14:45 Lynn Banez Okay. Now given what you, what you just heard how many, how– first of all let me do a, a quick check. How many people in here speak more than one language? Okay, so three. All right. So language sometimes is an issue. We haven’t We haven’t talked about so much, about socio-economics. We haven’t addressed religion. We haven’t addressed sexual identity and I’m wondering why we we’re staying away from those kinds of things.

01:15:15 UNKNOWN Hmm.

Araya They’re personal. They’re, they’re not necessarily relevant to group that’s just starting to get to know each other, some of those issues. That’s one reason.

01:15:25 Lynn Banez What, what is– I’m hearing some, hmm, and getting some, getting some looks and I’m not sure what those mean. So can you clarify, you know how you receive that?

01:15:35 Theresa I, I think we’re been extremely cautious.

01:15:40 UNKNOWN Uh-hmm.

Theresa You know, I mean, you know, I, I, I think that, ah, people are, are being politically correct. Uhm, and that those are difficult subjects to talk about and, and we don’t. And in fairness to the comments that have been made, we don’t know each other that well. I mean, we are a new group in the sense of being a group –

01:16:05 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Theresa – and, you know, there’s always so much risk that you’re willing to tale.

01:16:10 Reflecting meaning: “Hedging”

Lynn Banez So what, what are you really telling the group and can you, can you t6ell them directly what you just said because of you, you kind of captured it in, in sort of a headline and…

01:16:20 Theresa I think that people, that we as a group are hedging. That there are some things that, you know, uhm…

01:16:30 Confronting discrepancies

01:16:35 Lynn Banez Okay. Now I’m going to ask you to take a risk. Can you say that as an I statement? Can you say, just “I’m hedging, I’m hedging”?

01:16:40 Theresa Yeah! I’m hedging.

Araya I’m not.

Lynn Banez And, okay. Araya’s… Who else do you feel that from if anyone?

01:16:50 UNKNOWN Well, I, I, I don’t know as I’m…

Lynn Banez No I’m here to take a risk.

01:16:55 UNKNOWN Now you’re, now you’re putting here on hot water.

Therapy Tapes: Group Microskills Assignment

Challenging resistance by attending to process

Theresa I think, I think Araya has and I think that, that Jean has. Uhm, I think that, ah, Steve has, hasn’t, you know, said you know, I, I, I don’t hear you having said that or, you know. Uhm, and but I mean, you know, both Jean and Araya have been very vocal so that’s why not to pick on you guys certainly because I’m not picking and she’s forcing me to.

01:17:20 Lynn Banez So she’s trying already to put some qualifiers in there, right? We’re moving to an area off risk and we want to put qualifiers there because it kind of puts us out in that, out in that, out in that boat. But I think there’s some reality to being…

01:17:35 Theresa But I think that all is not nice with the world and I think that, you know, uhm, that we would love to believe that all is nice with the world but it’s not and I mean there are –

01:17:45 UNKNOWN Do you think we’re saying that?

UNKNOWN – there are, I think that we’ve, we’ve cautiously, ah, tread at this point. Yeah I do.

01:17:55 Araya I, I’m just going with how I feel. I feel comfortable and at ease. My nature is to talk about what is, uhm, I’m not saying that, you know, in every one of those places that I grew up there were terrible circumstances in my personal life, in my community life, in every area.

01:18:10 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Araya But, you know, am I going to be here to complain? No, I’m gonna be here to tell you at least as far as what’s, ah, gratifying to me –

01:18:20 Lynn Banez To where you’re right now.

Araya – to where I arrived to from that process and from that, you know, journey.

01:18:25 Confrontation of discrepancies

Soraya I’m going to be going out on a limb here and it’s not to attack anyone, but Araya like from what you’ve been sharing with us all along. I, I feel that it’s, uhm, you’ve pretty much tried to put, uhm, ah, a banner of who you are. Like you’re packaging your ideas to the group in a way that it’s, uhm, it’s likeable. And a lot of the things that you share with us, I, I, I share the same thing and I feel that in some ways you are hedging because you keep going back to this is how I view the world, commonality and…

01:19:10 Araya But it’s true.

Soraya Right. And, and it is and I see and I view it the same way because a lot of things that you’re saying I can relate to, uhm, I’m also like looking at the positive and being, you know, and looking at the…

01:19:20 Lynn Banez So you’re also kind of fessing up to what Theresa’s saying…

01:19:25 Araya We’ll I’m primarily.

Soraya Yes.

Confrontation: Group incongruity

Lynn Banez I’m hedging a bit too and not taking a risk but now I’m taking a risk because I’m volunteering that I’m hedging.

01:19:30 Soraya Right.

Lynn Banez But I also see the world as Araya sees it so how are we supposed to do something with this. And I think one of the things that we can, that we haven’t addressed is there’s a couple of times now. There’s been at least three instances when Jean has referred to Steve as a White male and he clearly has not said that. And we’ve kind of just let that die as a group as much as everyone wanted to be supportive and helpful for Julius, we’re letting this, this die for, for Steve.

01:20:05 Soraya Good point.

UNKNOWN Uh-hmm.

Confrontation: Group incongruity

Lynn Banez And I don’t, I, I’m kind of curious what that’s about. And if we need to pick that up. And then I mean I can bring in other things but I’d like this group to be more about all of you then and this is not the group for the leader to get help from. This is where the group where you can grow from. So I, I am kind of curious. I there a double standard?

01:20:30 Theresa Yeah. There clearly is a double standard and I’d be more than happy to speak to that, you know, when I look at White male I don’t see that necessarily as an oppressed group so when, uhm, you know, Jean spoke to, you know, Steve clearly said, American male. You recognized that earlier on and said, oh, I said White. That’s my, you know, blinders on. Uhm, again you said White American male. Again, he never, he never used the word White. I am not sensitive to that. I did not pick up on that. I did not address that because I don’t see White male an oppressed group or, uhm, as something that…

01:21:20 Directing: member to member clarification

Lynn Banez Well, one of the things, one of the things we have not done.

Theresa And I’m not saying that’s right or wrong.

01:21:25 Lynn Banez Wait, wait. One of the things we have not done with Steve is ask him. Defining as an American male can you clarify that for me, Steve might be an American Indian male. We don’t know that.

01:21:35 Jean I, I’d like to ask Steve that. I’d like to ask Steve. Steve how do you, how do you ethnically self-identify?

01:21:45 Steve I identify as a, an American with a European descent.

Therapy Tapes: Group Microskills Assignment

Lynn Banez Okay.

Diversity focus

01:21:50 Jean So in, as a European decent how is that classified to you? Is that considered White? Is that considered a person of color? Is that considered, because in the language that I understand, European male is synonymous with White male.

01:22:05 Steve Right.

Jean And I wondered what that distinction was for you. Is there a difference to you between European and White and I, and I’m interested to know a little bit about that.

01:22:20 Steve For me, White, when, when somebody identifies as White, it, it’s people see that as an oppressor and I’m, I’m moving away from identifying as an oppressor to identifying as an European American which has roots in Poland and Austria. That’s my heritage, that’s my background, but identifying as a White man, if I were to say that, it makes some people uncomfortable and it makes me uncomfortable at times when, when people see me as that.

01:22:55 Jean I wondered if it made you uncomfortable and I wanted to apologize.

Steve No, not at all. I quite honestly up until recently, identified myself as a White American male and that, that just been changed over the last couple of months.

01:23:05 Lynn Banez But now you’re letting her off the hook.

Steve But, but it’s also the truth.

01:23:10 Lynn Banez Okay, and you speak to it right now today. I know you just recently kind of moved in this direction.

01:23:15 Steve Uh-hmm.

Here and now restorying

01:23:20 Lynn Banez In order to kind of help you I guess rewrite your story because your story has been, I’m a White American male, to, I’m an American male with European descent? I’m moving away from yes, I have participated in racism, now I would like to say I’m participating more as an ally and I know you’re working hard on those things.

01:23:40 Steve Absolutely.

01:23:45 Lynn Banez So how can I guess we help you rewrite that story because in this move that you tell Jean. Well that’s okay, in a way that I hear at least I don’t know anyone else can give feedback as well, what I hear you saying is, well okay, I can take that.

01:24:00 Steve I don’t, I don’t feel that I said that. I said kind of like that’s where I was and I understand how you, how she could see that.

01:24:05 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Steve But at the same time when, when, when you’re presented with somebody who looks like me, a White male.

01:24:15 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Steve Pe– that’s, that what people see.

Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Steve And that’s something that I’m trying to change. And not, not too many people often take a different stance. So I, I think what it comes down to is, is language –

01:24:30 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Steve – and an adjective.

Lynn Banez So how does, how does it feel when you hear that, when someone, just calls you a White make and says, you know, White, I don’t see White males as oppressive. Because I saw you do this little kind of pounce move. I felt like, ooh, there’s a little pounce move coming out right here. Not that he was going to pounce on you.

01:24:45 Jean No.

Individual focus: Eliciting emotion

Lynn Banez But I just felt this kind of welling up beside me.

01:24:50 Steve Yeah, absolutely. Uhm, I really didn’t know how to react. I mean, I, I know how it is to…

01:24:55 Lynn Banez What was the feeling? What was the feeling?

Steve I, I felt like you didn’t know that I…

01:25:00 Lynn Banez Can you identify the feeling?

Steve Let me say that again. When you said that many…

01:25:05 Lynn Banez Just, just the feeling.

Theresa White male, I didn’t.

Steve Frustrated. Frustrated.

01:25:10 Lynn Banez Frustrated.

Theresa I don’t view White male as an oppressed group, right?

Steve Right.

Lynn Banez So you feel frustrated when it, when it happens.

01:25:15 Steve Uh-hmm. Absolutely.

Jean And I’m wondering whether it’s an oppressed group or not an oppressed group. If it’s an important thing Steve, that’s what should be important because it’s an individual difference and that’s something that I, I’d like to identify. That’s what hitting me right now.

Therapy Tapes: Group Microskills Assignment

01:25:30 Summary: Multicultural assumption

Lynn Banez Well I think there are a lot of things that work on with this example and one of those things is how we make assumptions when people don’t give us a racial clarification and we want to put one on him. And like I said, he could have been American Indian, he could have been Latino, you know, we don’t know. Just, we made some, we made some assumptions and that we needed to get clarification. And certainly we can follow up with, you know, in our next session with, uhm, you know are White males oppressed, are they oppressors and how do we deal with that and the other topics that we haven’t addressed because you yourselves have said, well, those are a little risky and right now, okay, I’ve said I really know my group, but maybe I don’t really know my group so yes, I’m taking risks and I’m more close to the best than I’m really saying.

01:26:25 Araya I still struggle with the labels, you know, the labels that we have for each other is just being reductive, you know, and, and to be immediately perceived as White make or, you know, Black male or whatever is just completely to me, it always feels like it just completely dismisses the person’s humanity or human richness or fullness and, uhm –

01:26:45 Lynn Banez Well I think.

Araya – I know, you know, I know what our emphasis is but it just I can’t, there’s a part of me that resists even listening to the, to the typing or whatever.

01:26:55 Lynn Banez Hmm, so there’s a part of you that a, a, as we go with the labels, just is…

01:27:00 Araya I can’t hear it, almost like, you know, i– if I had a hand going like this by my ears that’s, that’s how I feel about it.

01:27:05 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Araya But, uhm…

Preparing to end session

01:27:10 Lynn Banez Well I think, you know, I just want– I wanna wrap up this session. Maybe in the next session as we kind of get really working with the stories that we’ve raised here is to maybe do a role play if you’re, if you’re comfortable with that –

01:27:20 UNKNOWN Sure, sure.

Lynn Banez – with the, you know, the labels kind of being deflected away from the ears and how that is.

01:27:25 Araya Uh-hmm.

Lynn Banez And how that, how that works for you. And we can maybe come back in our next session and, and…

01:27:30 Note how Theresa takes responsibility for her part in this discussion

Theresa I do feel I need to say something now before we wrap up.

01:27:40 Lynn Banez Sure.

Theresa takes responsibility

Theresa And that is Steve. I wasn’t talking to you as being an oppressor, okay. I just hope you understand that.

01:27:45 Steve Sure.

Theresa I mean the question was is there a double standard?

01:27:50 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Steve Okay.

Theresa And there is clearly a double standard. There’s a double standard between Black males, White males, and White women and Black women and that exists in our society, you know, and, and, and Latino and…

01:28:00 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Theresa So that’s where I was coming from.

01:28:05 Steve Sure.

Theresa I looked at you because I was speaking of White males –

01:28:10 Steve Uh-hmm.

Theresa – and that’s, you know, so I wanted, that’s why I wanted.

Lynn Banez And, and, and you bring up a good point that I think that we can, ah, work on also in the next segment so what I’d ask you to do is sort of take that, that story line and just stick it up on the board with a little pin so that we don’t forget it and we come back to it because I think that’s an important thing for all of us to process, uhm, because it impacts all of us in the way we work, ah, together and certainly in the way we work together as a group.

01:28:35 Theresa I have one more thing and it was very hard to me to do that and the reason that it was very difficult for me to do that is because you are the only male in this group.

01:28:45 Steve Uh-hmm.

Encouragement/Restatement

Theresa And I have a real sensitivity to people who are the only person in a group.

01:28:50 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Theresa And but I felt that, you know, that was where we needed to go to move to group along. Uhm, so that was the other thing.

01:28:55 Araya Could it be…

Lynn Banez It sounds– can I just stick with Theresa for a minute?

01:29:00 Araya Sure, sure.

Lynn Banez It sounds like that was very hard.

01:29:05 Theresa It was very hard for me to do that cause he’s the only guy here.

01:29:10 Lynn Banez Can, can you talk to your feeling about that because I can see your eyes sort of well.

Theresa Well, you know, when you’re the only person, even if you’re the only woman in a group of me or if you’re the only man in a group of woman. It’s very difficult to be, uhm, brought out, you know, to be called out because you’re already, and, ah, you may not be feeling this way I’m only talking about how I feel. You know I’d been in that position –

01:29:30 Lynn Banez Listen I– Okay I was just gonna ask you…

Theresa – so many times where I’ve been the only woman in the group and to be, uhm, attacked or to have, uhm, and I didn’t want you to feel attacked.

01:29:45 Steve Yeah.

Theresa But to have somebody, you know, focused on me, uhm, is very difficult because you are not necessarily gonna get the support from the other people in the room.

01:29:55 Reflecting both feeling and meaning

Lynn Banez So maybe one of the things we need to do because O, I can feel how this was hard and how it was attached to your prior personal experience of having been attacked as the only woman in that, and it seems like that was a, a painful event because of the tears welling up in your eye that maybe we could give Theresa just some feedback about, you know, how you received it as if, if this is true. It’s not attacking and if anyone else might wanna give Theresa feedback on how they, ah, hurt heard her talked to Steve as well as, ah, offer her any kind of support and then we’ll wrap up.

01:30:30 Member to member focus

Jean I, I’d like to say Theresa that it took a lot of risk, uhm, to be forthright and express that, I think that you’ve, ah, said something that the group is feeling. I but don’t know that because people haven’t, haven’t owned it but I thank you for bringing that in because it, it was, it was helpful to me and thank you.

01:30:50 Theresa Thank you.

01:30:55 Araya I appreciate your, ah, did you wanna say something?

Steve No, go ahead I’ll sit.

Therapy Tapes: Group Microskills Assignment

Summary: Positive assets

01:31:00 Araya Ah, I think it’s wonderful to have that sensitivity but I have to say that on one hand I don’t understand where it’s coming from even though you have expressed yourself because to me each one of us has a difference and it’s like what is the uniqueness in being the fact that he is a male he is also so many other things. So…

01:31:15 Lynn Banez Right. But I think, I think there’s a, a, ah, there’s a lot of things and that’s why I’ve asked Theresa cause I think it’s important to just put the story up. Ah, you know, it’s like my daughter has a, a story board where they write their stories and they, you know, put them away for the day because they can’t finish them. We can just put that story in the folder or, or up on the board and get to it and complete it because you raised a lot of issues. I think a lot of us have experienced. Araya it sounds like you want to bring in a slightly different story which is equally as valid and let’s see how those stories worked together, need to be rewritten for some, ah, and so that we can take them out when it’s time to end the group and make them meaningful and relevant to us as we go out into the world and, and, ah, hopefully have done some personal growing and examining today. All right, any last things, Steve, was there anything that you wanted to say before we wrap up?

01:32:15 Steve I was just gonna say, uhm, when you started talking about well, well, whether me– White men are, are really oppressed or not, uhm, I sa– I felt myself getting really guarded cause I, I felt like you were– ah, ah, as you were just explaining two minutes ago, I felt like I had to carry the torch –

01:32:35 Theresa Uh-hmm.

Steve – for, you know, my gender and I appreciate you, uhm, you know, stating what you said. Thank you.

01:32:40 Lynn Banez And I, I, I do think it’s really important that we bring it up. I, I have seen, I se– I saw– I certainly seen your eyes well on. Ando Soraya your, the facial expression that I see when Theresa was speaking, uhm, spoke a thousand words in terms of maybe your own experience and your own emotion, so I do wanna get back to this. Uhm, but I think we’re out of time for this session. Next session we’ll come back together and we’ll address it and we’ll also address, Araya, what you brought up about, what about the humanity. Okay? Thank you.

01:33:15 SESSION 3, DIMENSION 4: WORKING-EXAMINING GOLAS, SHARING, CONFRONTING, RE-STORYING Summary and Linking

01:33:20 Lynn Banez I think we’re really ready to move into the working stage. And in the working stage I would like you to really begin to address each other , you see, a little bit more, uhm, you know, you can give each other feedback, respond to one another, uhm, confront one another. You started to do that in the last session, but now as we really begin to work on the issues that rose up in that last session, ah, you know, feel free to, to go ahead and assert yourself in your own voice and, and talk to whoever you wanna talk to. What we ended, ah, the last session about, ah, was with Theresa’s, ah, discussion about, you know, feeling a little protective, ah, about talking, about White me- men to with having only one White male here. Ah, being a little conflict with that because she also wanted to talk about, you know, your beliefs around any your own experiences, uhm, before we move to that I wan– just wanted to open, ah, up to the group was there anything that you all had thought of, ah, since we last met and was there anything that you wanted to address that you didn’t have chance to address before?

01:34:35 [sil.]

01:34:40 Jean I had an experience that I think would be interesting for the group to hear and I don’t know if this is the right time but it’s a story that illustrates a little bit about what, we’re I think the group is experiencing and what we been talking about, uhm, very quickly in my past career in business. I had a client who I’d worked with for four, five years, and I was all over United States with him and then had a breakfast meeting in his hometown in Texas. And this is a person who I communicated with, talk with, been friendly with, felt I knew and came out with a comment to me something along the lines with you do real well down here. Do you ever thought of coming down in Texas? Light hair, light eyes, he said, uhm, cause, you know, life really exist outside Texas. It’s not those Catholics up there in Boston. And I cringed because I’m Roman Catholic. And this man identified me as Protestant or Southern Baptist or something one of his people. And immediately changed the relationship for me, but in a business relationship you don’t address those issues, he is my client –

01:35:55 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Jean – I’m the person in that, but it changed my perspective in the way that, I was all of a sudden extremely guarded.

01:36:00 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Jean And I didn’t offer, oh, no, I’m Catholic, Pal, you know, this is what are you talking about? So how…

01:36:05 Lynn Banez This people…

01:36:10 Theresa Why didn’t, why didn’t you, I’m sorry. Why didn’t you offer that you were Catholic?

Jean I was shocked quite frankly and I felt that this person was closed off and I didn’t know what, what this person was capable of as far as retribution or lashing out because he was opening up this part of himself to me, and felt as though this was just common, common course.

01:36:30 Relection of meaning

Theresa So you felt disclosure would somehow hurt you from a career standpoint.

01:36:35 Jean It would hurt me from a career standpoint and I wasn’t comfortable with saying this is how I self identify and this is all of a sudden I was being a– as, as a woman who happens to be White who you just see me, you wouldn’t know what my religion is or know anything more about me.

01:36:55 Theresa Right.

01:37:00 Jean This is the, oh, those of us in there. You don’t know some of those things yet this person tripped over this, and just completely thrashed me right across the board. Didn’t realize it, didn’t care and all of a sudden I became the person that was oppressed. I hadn’t experienced that up in my life up until that point, that opened my eyes tremendously.

01:37:20 Theresa Do you think you made the same assumption with Steve?

Jean Absolutely. And that’s why I felt so disturbed and still feel uncomfortable in my gut that I made that assumption not once but twice I tripped over myself.

01:37:30 Lynn Banez So the there and then became here and now really.

01:37:35 Jean The there and then became here and now. Yet my belief system is to not make those assumptions and be aware of who people are and I, I, I like to see the difference and work with that.

01:37:45 Attending to non-verbal incongruences

Lynn Banez I, I’m just so– I just wanna, ah, ask does anyone notice as, as Jean is talking how, how she uses her body in that story. And is anyone going to give her some feedback on that?

01:38:00 Theresa She keeps going, you mean how she keeps holding her stomach?

01:38:05 Lynn Banez Some, she did something else. She did something else.

Theresa No, that I didn’t noticed. I noticed, I noticed that she was…

01:38:10 Lynn Banez She would do this when she was kind of protecting about I, I the– itse– felt protecting when you were talking about how he was attacking you –

01:38:20 Jean Right.

Lynn Banez – I’ll, I’ll use those words. And then when you were like, you know, this is the way it is, you made fists and you were just like, you know, this is –

01:38:30 Jean Right.

Lynn Banez – this.

Jean And that passion comes out. And, it’s interesting because my feeling when I’m speaking with Steve I feel so badly that I made an assumption and, and hurt, hurt you in, in that way because I felt you pull back the way that I did. And I wanted to make a point to communicate that I acknowledge you as a European-American male.

01:38:55 Steve Uh-hmm.

Jean And I thank you for, for telling me and I wondered if in that situation had I made a statement to this person would it have mattered in their life, I don’t know. Would it have mattered in my life, but in a group context or when I do have the ability to kinda communicate on a higher level or more developed, uhm, shall I say, uhm, in my own ethnic identity development and working with people who may not be as evolved as I am to keep that in mind. Or, or maybe I’m not as developed as another person and I’m not seeing where my lens is, is touching. So it’s interesting and I’m feeling that right now.

01:39:35 Attending to non-verbal’s

Lynn Banez Well one of the things I’m aware of as you tell your story is, Theresa is smiling and I’m feeling very much identifying with this story. Soraya you just have this look on your face. It, it, it’s attentive and, and I’m not quite sure what, what you’re feeling and, and I’m kinda curious about that.

01:39:55 Soraya Uhm, it’s pretty much listening to what Jean has to say. Uhm, I mean having been in situations like that also –

01:40:05 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Soraya – I’m just really, just trying to understand where like how she would have felt at the, at the moment when that happened and how she feels now having done the reverse to Steve and so I’m just pretty much just trying to understand.

01:40:15 The checkout

Lynn Banez Okay, I just want to check in, I don’t wanna make any assumptions about body language. Theresa, for you there seem to be maybe more of an identification would that be, correct?

01:40:25 Theresa Yeah, I, ah, very much so I mean I think, you know, there is a, a couple of issues there I mean, uhm, one certainly was, you know, the fact that it was, you know, a male counterpart, uhm, and it was interesting that, ah, you know, blonde hair, blue eyes, suddenly, you know, you know, you could be accepted anywhere, okay, cuz that’s the general –

01:40:45 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Theresa – you know, understanding.

01:40:50 Lynn Banez How do you feel about that?

Theresa Uhm…

01:40:55 Lynn Banez I mean, she described you. That’s what…

Therapy Tapes: Group Microskills Assignment

Theresa Oh, I know, that’s what I’m saying and I’ve, I’ve been in that same situa– I mean, I know that, you know, we’re talking early about, you know, White privilege and male privilege where there is clearly a blonde-blue eyed privilege too. I mean, in, ah, you know, there’s a privileges that comes from, from being good looking. I mean that, you know, affords you certain opportunities that, you know, that’s another bias, you know, that, that may not afford other people certain opportunities. Uhm, and the, the Catholic thing, you know, uhm, there, you know, that is, there is clearly discrimination against Catholics. And there’s, ah, there’s discrimination against, you know, any number of religions but it’s interesting that it is that blatant. You know, I’m just– it’s just, I guess it just never ceases to amaze that, that people just stumble over this ignorance. Uhm, and they think it’s okay.

01:41:50 Linking

Lynn Banez Well, I’m, I’m wondering I wanna toss this out to you and then I, I want you, your group to maybe respond because I think what I’ve heard from you, seen from you, experienced from this group is that you’re all very supportive and attentive to one another. So I, I want you to be able to, to do that and when I, when I’m gonna toss this out, ah, to you Theresa in our earlier session, our previous session when you, ah, were talking to Steve and your eyes started to water up –

01:42:20 Theresa Yeah.

Lynn Banez – it sounded like you were talking from a personal experience. I’m wondering if you could take that, there-then experience and bring it here and make it a here-now and deal with that emotion because it, it seemed to be current and I kinda asked you to, you know, hold on to it and now I would like you to speak to it a little bit.

01:42:45 Lynn has summarized group process Let us look again at her use of linking

01:42:50 Lynn Banez Well, I’m, I’m wondering I wanna toss this out to you and then I, I want you, your group to maybe respond because I think what I’ve heard from you, seen from you, experienced from this group is that you’re all very supportive and attentive to one another. So I, I want you to be able to, to do that and when I, when I’m gonna toss this out, ah, to you Theresa in our earlier session, our previous session when you, ah, were talking to Steve and your eyes started to water up –

01:43:20 Theresa Yeah.

Lynn Banez – it sounded like you were talking from a personal experience. I’m wondering if you could take that, there-then experience and bring it here and make it a here- now and deal with that emotion because it, it seemed to be current and I kinda asked you to, you know, hold on to it and now I would like you to speak to it a little bit.

01:43:40 Theresa Okay. Uhm, what I was, I was, I was speaking to before and what I’ll speak to now is, is the sensitivity for someone when they are the only person of that kind in a group. Because I have been the only person of a kind in a group and, and historically that’s been woman in a male’s group. And it’s a very, and it’s a very scary thing. Uhm, there’s a whole lot of emotions that go with that and it’s, it’s very, it’s, it’s, it’s painful and it’s hurtful to talk about cause of the things is when you walk into that situation, uhm, and I’ll give you specific example of a situation and, and that was where I was, I had just gotten promoted to a zone operations manager position. I was the only woman in the company to ever hold that position, I was called into a regional meeting with all the other managers, uhm, and I was the only woman in that room. And there was probably 25 people in that room and me. And there were a whole lot of people that would have been real happy had I not been there. And there were some that were, you know, supportive and you look, Jean, like you’re shocked by that. That you’re surprised, uhm, and now let me take this as going back to, I’m trying to think with the, the year was but anyway it’s back in the, the 80s. Uhm, and, yeah, they did, ah, you know, it was clearly good old boy network and they wanted to keep it the good old boy network. And here comes, you know, little miss blonde, uhm, who’s now, now.

01:45:30 Restorying: The group starts to reframe their thoughts and feelings. Restorying with current affect

Lynn Banez Let’s, let’s bring it back to well, you, you said there were several emotions that, that are attached around that, and clearly some of them became present when you were talking to Steve. Can you bring some of those, ah, experiences atta– attached with the emotion into the group because I think it speak to some of the issues about how diversity has affected all of our lives because we are a, a diverse group both in appearance and in the unspoken some of which has been spoken but I’m sure there are many other differences that exist here in ways that people are oppressed that are not apparent to the eye. So I’m wondering if you could just kind of speak to what you are experience has been.

01:46:10 Self-disclosure, Parallel process

01:46:15 Theresa Okay. So, but then I guess the emotions that I’ve felt or that I would even feel now in that same situation or I felt when I was talking to Steve or I felt for Steve was, uhm, one is fear.

01:46:25 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Theresa Uhm, ah, one is loneliness, sadness. Uhm, I guess those are the, the, the I guess those are the primary emotions that’s just, that’s just it’s hu– and it’s hurtful, its sad, you know, you are just, you’re all alone and you’re just, it’s just you.

01:46:55 Jean Yeah. I relate to what you are saying and wanted to clarify for some attend to just your feelings and I observed anger as well.

01:47:10 Theresa Okay.

Jean Uhm, not just those and I’ve shared all of those and my smile or my surprise was triggered by a situation where, when I was in an old boy network I literally, they sent somebody out. They sent a minion out and I was standing there a new woman in a department looking all cute and blonde and, and new office and here I was thinking I’m being invited into a community cause I earned it and this guy walks right up to me because he was sent out to see what I was made of.

01:47:45 Theresa Uh-hmm.

Jean And he walked right into my personal space and started talking to me. And I had two choices I could back off, or I could stepped in. We had a nose-to- nose conversation until he hacked off. Part of that was because maybe it was privileged of being the eldest of three girls but I didn’t identify genders. I said, how dare this guy do this I was angry. I was thinking no, empowerment here. And I wish for you that you have that experience because I’m feeling its right here . You’re holding it right here. I’m feeling that emotional today right in this room.

01:48:25 Theresa Yeah, I, I mean, I, I, I, I would like to believe that I’ve, you know, come through a lot of that, you know. I mean, in but I think still even in the moment, you know, there is, there’s fear. Um, there’s loneliness, there’s sadness. You want to be, you know, I wanna belong, you know, I want to be part of the group.

01:48:45 Jean Uh-hmm.

01:48:50 Theresa And you’re not. I mean you’re just not no matter what people pretend just like no matter what that guy pretended with you, okay, the reality of life was is, if he really knew that you were Catholic you would no longer be part of his group.

01:49:05 Jean Oh, and lose client.

01:49:10 Theresa And lose a client.

Jean Sure.

Theresa Right.

Lynn Banez So let, let, let’s move that because I, I, I would tend to agree with what Jean is saying I, I feel that emotion still in you and certainly when you were talking to Steve and I don’t know if that would help you to maybe talked to Steve some more about that to kind of just bring that emotion here and, and work with the group that maybe and the group maybe you can give Theresa feedback on how she is belonging because her experience her story has been, I don’t belong. I’m the only one, I fight, I don’t belong. And so what we wanna do is work with that so that she can leave the, the group today with what you were saying Jean.

01:50:05 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Theresa Okay, I still feel the pain of those moments.

01:50:10 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm. Well so, we’ll speak to that, that, that, that pain. Speak about that.

01:50:15 Theresa I, I, I guess I’m, I’m not sure what to say other than, uhm…

01:50:20 Lynn Banez Well, okay. Let’s, let’s go back to how you, uhm, we’re addressing Steve.

01:50:25 Theresa Right.

Concrete Directive, Role Play

Lynn Banez And let’s, let’s just play that through again and see if you are able, see if that comes up for you cuz that, it just happened naturally.

01:50:40 Theresa Uhm, I, I while I was talking with, you know, Steve I didn’t want you to think that I had, I’ve– it was very painful for me to, to pick you out. And to, uhm, to because I didn’t want to attack you cuz you were the only male member of this group and, ah, I didn’t want to put you in a position where you were being attacked, isolated and, and, you know, drawn out as, as the only person. That’s just, you know, I just…

01:51:15 Encourage/Restatement

Lynn Banez Can you just say that to him just direct, straight away? You– guess what Steve you were the only person. You are the only man here, you’re the only person.

01:51:25 Here and now focus

Theresa You don’t know that, uhm, Steve you’re the only, you’re the only man in this group. You know you are surrounded by, by women, uhm, and we’re, you know, uhm, and we look at historically I look at, you know, White males as the oppressors, uhm, and you are the only male in this group of women.

01:51:55 Lynn Banez Can you make that a little more concise and say it again?

01:52:00 Theresa Uhm, well, what I’d like to say is, uhm, I feel for the fact that you are the only male in this group and I feel for the fact that we’re focusing all this attention on you right now.

01:52:20 Lynn Banez What are you feeling? Because there’s something about this related to you.

01:52:25 Theresa I…

Therapy Tapes: Group Microskills Assignment

Soliciting Feedback

Lynn Banez Can, can other people help Theresa out?

01:52:30 Jean I’m wondering, I’m wondering what would happen if someone had said that to you and pulled you in by saying, “Theresa, you’re the only woman in the group.”

01:52:45 [sil.]

01:52:55 Theresa Yeah.

Steve And there’s also a difference I feel like, it’s very safe for me here cause we’re all colleagues but the environment that you were describing it was almost apa– it was apparent to you that some people didn’t want you there.

01:53:10 Theresa Clearly.

Steve And I mean, you said, you said some people were supportive but support is like a neutral thing. And other people just didn’t want you there.

01:53:15 Theresa Right.

Positive Asset: Confront incongruencies

01:53:20 Lynn Banez And I think one, one of the, one of the, ah, things that, ah, I, I think the group can appreciate in you Steve, is that you, you care and you’re compassionate, you have empathy for your peers and you want them to feel included but there, there is still something, ah, that I would, like to hear from Theresa because even if she were saying I feel like the, the lights on Steve, like I’m putting everything on Steve right now and the lights on him. I could feel almost a quiver in your voice and your eyes started to tear up again which to me said something’s happening for Theresa even though she’s saying the lights on Steve. And I don’t, I don’t know if the rest of you have observed that or what you’re feeling and if you can give, ah, Theresa. Araya, you…

01:54:05 Feedback on discrepancies

Araya Uhm, yeah, I, I’m having a curious response sitting next to Theresa. I’m always very sensitive about what I’m feeling and heat and other energies when a person is saying one thing and I’m aware of the duality if I can, I don’t like that term, but, uhm, in saying you’re only one here. If you varied tones with that from nice to angry, you know, it seems to me that would maybe touch on if I were you, I’ll speak from the I position what the, the full range of my feelings are about having you be the only guy here. Because somewhere in there I would be angry and I would want to, I would want to maybe say, you know, uhm, you know, when I was the only one, this is how I was treated.

01:54:55 We now see major restorying from “I am Victim” to “I am also a Bully/Oppressor” Restorying

01:55:00 Jean To tie in to the fact I made an assumption with Steve and all of a sudden Steve, Steve was put in a defensive position because I spoke, I spoke for you Steve and said that you had identified, self identified as a White American male.

01:55:20 Steve Uh-hmm.

Jean So all of a sudden you’re on defensive position. Could that be similar to what Theresa was feeling in-group where people are saying, hmm, we’re women, we don’t want you here. It’s an old boys network. So it’s almost like a feeling of that you’re on the defensive, you’re the only make. Okay, I mean wondering if that’s a component of it, not just the fact that you’re the only male.

01:55:40 Theresa I think it’s, it’s for me, it’s more that, uhm, he’s being picked on.

01:55:45 Jean Uh-hmm.

01:55:50 Theresa They’re the bullies…

Jean Uh-hmm. Oppressors.

Theresa Or I’m the bully right now and…

01:55:55 Please Stop Video and discuss restorying and oppression: We can be both oppressed and an oppressor.

01:56:00 Lynn Banez So is that the source of your pain that you’re the bully?

Reframing

Theresa Yeah, that’s exactly the source of my pain. I don’t wanna be the bully. And I don’t want to be the source of, I don’t want to be the object of the bullies.

01:56:10 Lynn Banez You don’t want to be the object of the bullies and you also don’t be the bully.

01:56:15 Theresa I don’t want to be the bully

Jean And I think the emotion, I’m reacting to your emotion, I’ve seen the tears well up in your eyes –

01:56:25 Lynn Banez Can you… ah, louder.

Jean – feeling, feeling, I’ve seen the tears well up in your eyes and just that feeling of I, I’ve played the oppressor, I played the oppressor today. I didn’t recognize and, and talk to Steve and I play that role today. I know what that feels like. Yet unknowingly or subconsciously I did that I’m wondering if you’re feeling how that felt,

01:56:45 Theresa Yeah, I think I am and I also think that’s what I was feeling when Allen was talking with Julius, too.

01:56:50 Jean Yeah, yeah.

Lynn Banez It’s that he was the bully.

01:56:55 Theresa Yeah.

Jean And, uhm, I mean I couldn’t name it until just now.

01:57:00 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Jean Uhm, but that’s exactly it, you know. I just…

01:57:05 Lynn Banez Well, I appreciate your hanging in there with that say, I could feel something. It was like was is that something?

01:57:10 Jean Right.

Drawing out silent member

Lynn Banez It seems to be escaping. I’m also curious sort of as to where Soraya, where you’re at and you’ve been kind of watching attentively.

01:57:20 SESSION 3, DIMENSION 4: WORKING-EXAMINING GOALS, SHARING, CONFRONTING, RE-STORYING Restory: “We are both oppressed and oppressor.”

01:57:25 Soraya Uhm, well, I guess in a way I’m relating to what you just said about not wanting to be the one that puts out, that like being the bully and I guess I’m kind of struck without conversation at our last segment and feeling that at that point I came across in talking about your world view that I came across as being a bully and as you quoted or as you said before like putting it out that negative energy. And so I guess in your discussion right now, I don’t know. I’m also stuck with, with that so I’m listening to what people are saying but I know I’m not, I’m still trying to deal with what happened before and in you saying that you don’t like to be the one that’s the bully, I feel really bad that I might have come across like that and that wasn’t my intent with when I made the comment to, to Araya. And, ah, so just I don’t know. So I guess I’m in the moment now feeling bad about what just happened in the last segment –

01:58:35 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Therapy Tapes: Group Microskills Assignment

Soraya – and not wanting to do that.

Theresa See, I didn’t, I didn’t get that all from what you said and, and the more that I’m thinking about this now and, and my issue is it comes from see, because you’re going to, you’re going to go now. Uhm, it comes from somebody being a bully who has power. So I mean if I look at, and that’s where it comes from being the only one of a kind in a group because the power comes from, this is good stuff now. Okay, the power comes from the grou– from, from us against like you, Steve for instance. If we chose as women to now, we’d have the power and we’d be the bullies against you and that’s a situation that I was in. I was oppressed. They had the power. And they bullied me. I didn’t have the power because I was the only one.

01:59:35 Restory: “We are both oppressed and oppressor.”

Jean It strikes me like we all have this universal theme going on, and I don’t feel good when I feel like I’m the oppressor but I’ve been both the oppressed and the oppressor.

01:59:45 Theresa Right.

Jean And there’s so many positive things that each one of us in the group, Theresa I experience you as a very positive person. I don’t experience you as an oppressor. I didn’t feel what you were saying would put you in the role of oppressor, yet in, in terms of thinking of the oppressive cycle, some of those things might have been that way but we go out in the world and we talk to people and experience this. We play those roles. I play those roles. We go out into the world as group people and we, we play both the role of the oppressor which doesn’t feel good. It doesn’t feel good to me, yet there’s that positive twist of once you understand that and that awareness, it’s empowering and it feels good. There’s a positive side to it. There’s the pain of knowing that, that power can be misused, but I’ve experience you in a very positive way. Soraya, I’ve experienced you and the fact that we can get emotional about it. I just seem celebrating this. Its just the neatest thing to just see the, the, ah-huh, I didn’t realize when I came in to the group that we all were sharing that.

02:00:50 Please stop tape Discuss what you have just seen. Sub-group discussion

02:00:55 Araya I’d like to address what Soraya said since it had to do with me. uhm, thank you for bringing that up and, uhm, I’m glad we had the chance to talk between sessions, uhm, helped me to clarify, uhm, how I felt. I worked hard being open. I feel I am pretty open person and when you did direct that to me I felt hurt. It doesn’t mean that you were hurtful. I felt hurt, uhm, because I realized that somehow I hadn’t been clear and I like to be clear so, uhm, I was glad to have the opportunity after our session to talk some more with you. And I was taken with my own, uhm, misunderstanding about, uhm, the way, ah, I have, I have thought previously that, you know, world view is really not important even though I’m working with that all time with Lynn. And, uhm, and I had a very clear in the face experience where, ah, I had to really male myself clear to you and, you know, I went into this whole conversation about –

02:02:00 Soraya Uh-hmm.

Impact of Worldview

Araya – my process and the whole thing and where I’m coming from and it’s all about my world view and, uhm, I– I still got a lot to think about with this because it was just a pretty, it was, ah, it was an organic situation and, uhm, and I felt to and, ah, so now I’m gonna have to I’m gonna have to really rethink and reprocess what my ideas about that as it works in my life or maybe fails to work in certain instances. So, uhm, you know, I’m glad we had the exchange, you know, I’m glad I felt what I felt, uhm, I’m not taking it personally or anything but I did feel, I did feel like, you know, fire just went right through my body. Uhm, and, ah, I don’t know if you need some more clarification of any kind.

02:02:50 Mutual Feedback

02:02:55 Soraya No, I wasn’t, uhm, I guess looking back and that’s one of the reasons I asked you what would have been a better way for me to ask. Pretty much what I was just trying to get at was that I wasn’t, I was having a hard time trying to understand who you really are.

02:03:15 Araya Uh-hmm.

Soraya And I know you kept on presenting world views and I guess from my end, I was frustrated cuz I’m wasn’t sure if I really was getting who you are as a person and that’s why I said the whole thing of putting your world view as, as a shield. And in having our discussion –

02:03:30 Araya Uh-hmm.

Soraya – you explained that, that is who you are. So that was my misunderstanding because with other people they were coming from, I, I felt this or I did this and, and so I guess, you know, what I felt bad is, I guess my frustration in not understanding who you are came across you, you by me presenting it in a way that wasn’t productive and that’s why during the session I asked, well, how could I have asked you in a way that would have got given me the answer that I was looking for and, and you, you gave it to me. So –

02:04:05 Araya Right.

02:04:10 Soraya – so, and in, in no means, I felt bad that I hurt you in whatever way that was but I felt like I hurt you and that wasn’t my intention it was more like trying to get to know you and it came across negative. And, and I feel bad about that. And I feel bad about that.

Therapy Tapes: Group Microskills Assignment

02:04:30 Summary: Checking on unfinished business

Lynn Banez So one of the things that we have to do because I’m, ah, I’m aware of the, the time in our, and where we’re at in our session, so if I can just summarize where we, where we’ve been right now is that people have in different ways experienced being alone, singled out, oppressed, uhm, you know, be it gender, be it ethnicity, whatever. We’ve all had that experience being alone, singled out, oppressed, uhm, you know, be it gender, be it ethnicity, whatever. We’ve all had that experience, ah, people haven’t maybe been very aware of when they’ve been in that other shoe and just having a glimpse of that clarity and that awareness, ah, pained you. And it hurt, and you didn’t want people to see you as bullies and I think to hear from your peers that they didn’t receive you as bullies that maybe some misunderstanding, hurt or put somebody on the defensive is one thing, but you’re not batterers and you’re not bullies and your group mates appreciate you and feels very supportive of you, I think, and supported by you. And if I’m misspeaking for anyone, please, you know, ah, feel free to clarify. But I think we’ve had a really important session. Is there anything that I, that I missed that we need to address before we end this session?

02:05:55 Positive asset identified

02:06:00 Jean Well, I would say one thing. I would, I would have to say to you Soraya, that when you were addressing Araya I felt as though you were levelling more than you were being critical or negative.

02:06:10 Soraya Thank you.

Subtle confrontation

Jean And to Araya I felt as though you were a bit protected and that had we had a little bit more time I may have leveled as well to see a little bit more of how you got to where your present world view is to help me better understand how maybe some of the differences brought you to where you were and I felt that’s where the que– question is coming from to give you some feedback I don’t know what the rest of the group felt but I wanted to give you some feedback along those lines.

02:06:40 Soraya Oh, I thank you.

Araya Well, it wasn’t just that I’ll, I’ll say that it wasn’t what she said –

02:06:45 Jean Uh-hmm.

Araya – it wasn’t the words. It was what I felt, you know, being looked at –

02:06:50 Jean Uh-hmm.

Araya – and having, you know, just all of that addressed. So, and again, I’m not saying that she did anything but I had a, ah, I was an extreme, I’m an open person so I mean it doesn’t take much from you to feel a lot. That’s what I have to deal with. But, uhm, you know, I appreciate the time to reflect, you know, I appreciate the, the substance that, you know, I’ve thought about that we’ve talked about.

02:07:10 Jean Yeah.

Attending to non-verbal cues

02:07:15 Lynn Banez And that’s what helps us to grow and stretch. Steve, is there anything that, that you would like to add or, you don’t have to. I just want you the opportunity.

02:07:20 Steve Okay.

Lynn Banez Okay.

Steve But I, I appreciate each of you addressing the fact that I’m the only male member –

02:07:25 UNKNOWN Uh-hmm.

02:07:30 Steve – and I feel very comfortable.

Jean Steve, even though we haven’t said it, I feel as though you are part of the group.

02:07:35 Steve Thank you.

Lynn Banez So you can, you feel very, very comfortable and part of the group. Just if, if you can speak up a little bit.

02:07:40 Steve Oh, okay, yeah, I, I feel very comfortable and a part of the group.

02:07:50 Lynn Banez So I think in many ways we can all say, I mean we are a pretty diverse little group here. And we can all say I represent one something to he– today.

02:07:55 Jean Yeah.

02:08:00 Lynn Banez And so we all can sit in a chair of choosing to be alone as and not wanting to represent all of, you know, that group and to see the other side of that, that we all belong together. So, okay, thank you.

02:08:15 Jean Thank you.

Steve Thank you.

Jean Thanks.

SESSION 4, DIMENSION 5: Ending Generalizing and Acting in New Stories Linking

02:08:20 Lynn Banez Okay, I our last session, uhm, when we really talked about some, ah, emotional issues that came up about what it felt like to not only be oppressed but then to have that glimpse of what it might feel like to oppress. And as we move into our final session today, uhm, and get ready to kind of learn what we’ve learned in here and, and take it and apply it to our outside of group life, ah, before we do that I’d just like to check in with everybody and see if there is anything that’s left unfinished, unsaid from the last session before we begin to move to termination. Okay. Everybody’s okay?

02:09:10 UNKNOWN Yeah.

Generalizing new story

Lynn Banez All right, uhm, you know, it’s just, what I just said really. We have gone through the day and I think we started out with the story of how we’re all similar and human beings and nice and kind and that was a wonderful story to live by. And as we begin to kind of dig and tell the story and I guess turn to different chapters in our story. We found that we had in us also the ability to oppress another person or to at least help them feel excluded or hurt and that caused us a great deal of pain and so we wanted to rework that story, uhm, of, oops! I’m an, I’m an oppressor and I can be bully and I don’t like how that feels, to now we’re, we’re changing that story to– all right, I wanna go back having reworked what we did in the working session so that I can be an appreciative. I guess is the word I’m looking for, of what it’s like to be an oppressor with the understanding of what it’s like to have been oppressed and how I might use what I learned today in my everyday life? So are there ways that you can see how what you’ve learned today clarifying world view, understanding how world view and our assumptions can get it our way and make miscommunications, how you might be able to use those, uhm, in everyday life?

02:10:45 [sil.]

Understanding self- in relation

02:10:50 Theresa I’ll speak. Yeah, I mean, I think that, uhm, you know, I had, a, a guess Johari moment, uhm, today and you know being able to label what it was it I was feeling and why I was feeling it, uhm, has given me a, a really good perspective for leaving here. Uhm, where, you know, I can sense I think because there’s a feeling. I can, you know, I can sense when I’m being a bully.

02:11:25 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Theresa And now I can label that and say that, you know, I’m, ah, what it is that I’m doing and, uhm, look to identify and correct that, that behavior. And also when I’m feeling bullied, I can understand, you know, why I’m feeling bullied.

02:11:50 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Theresa Uhm, and, and maybe be able to, uhm, to not, for maybe to be able to deal with those emotions better.

Therapy Tapes: Group Microskills Assignment

02:12:00 Lynn Banez So as, as you’re feeling both, uhm, bullied or a– about to maybe step in into the bully role as you begin to feel those emotions kind of well up you feel like now and you’ll be able to recognize that they’re welling up and creeping up and, and interrupt them in either way. So if you feel like, oh, oh this is a situation where I might be bullied, I might be oppressed. I can take action or this is a situation where I might oppress, I might bully. Let me take action. Let me, let me try and prevent that and stop someone else from feeling that pain for myself because it hurts me to hurt somebody else.

02:12:45 Theresa Exactly, yeah, I think that, you know, this help me to identify those emotions, that feeling –

02:12:50 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Theresa – and to do exactly what you just said interrupt that.

Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

02:12:55 Theresa One more or the other, interrupt you from creating, you know, the bully behavior or interruptive from your feeling the hurt, uhm, from being bully or allowing myself to be a victim in that situation.

02:13:05 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Theresa You know, taking myself out of the victim role of being bullied, uhm, and doing something to interrupt that.

02:13:10 Theresa Right.

02:13:15 Lynn Banez Okay. How about, ah, other people? I mean, kind of similar insight I know how– I think Theresa called it a Johari moment. I think you may apply that is you had a moment where something that was unknown to became known.

02:13:25 Theresa Right.

Araya I’m wondering if, uhm, I’m not sure about the quality of my Johari moment yet, but, uhm, I will say I wonder if I choose not to say anything about where I’m coming from, what happens. If, if in other words, I chose to say I’m Tibetan Buddhist, I think is the primary thing. What would happen if I chose not to say anything at all then would, would I be open to questions or to the assumptions of people and then I’m wondering if I don’t say I’m a Tibetan Buddhist first of all to keep people from wondering anything and just keep that in the forefront, you know? If, if I am such a compilation of differences then take this, look at it, and then don’t bother with the rest because this is what I want you to see. This is the most important thing . So I think to a certain extent it’s, it’s the, uhm, the carpet I lay and the door I place, you know, the closed door that I place in my relations at least in the beginning.

02:14:25 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Araya And maybe as a protective mechanism because we’re in a group, you know, and, ah, I, you know, I chose, I utilize that and that way in what you were picking up I guess was that element of don’t check into, you know, the South America or anything this is what I want you to look at.

02:14:45 Lynn Banez So maybe there is something a little bit more behind that door but until that trust and that level of, of –

02:14:50 Araya Right.

Lynn Banez – security is felt in, in the group, you’re only willing to open the door –

02:14:55 Araya Uh-hmm.

Lynn Banez – a little bit further and say, but this is who I am now and this is my worldview.

02:15:00 Araya Right.

Lynn Banez And that there’s nothing wrong with that. What about other, other folks?

02:15:05 Ending group: Acting on Restory and Self-in-Relation Personal Responsibility

02:15:10 Jean Well, I can say that I have a heightened sense ore renewed sense of how important it is to take a look at what my lens is, how I’m seeing other people’s world view and not to make assumptions because as I deal with people and clients. I think I’ve gotten a little lax in that area as was demonstrated when I spoke with Steve and said something or recounted something that he hadn’t actually spoken, something he hadn’t said. And, uhm, I’m going to take that with me today and refocus and, and, ah, revisit my ethnic identity development and, uhm, take care with people who maybe don’t want the door open quite right now.

02:15:55 Theresa Jean, I’m having a little trouble hearing you.

02:16:00 Jean Excuse me. I got all emotional when Theresa was speaking and I think I, a little tear in my eye and a little cough in my throat, so again to, to revisit my ethnic development and to be conscious of maybe, uhm, Araya that you have a door there that you’re not, not ready to open but there’s so much richness there that down the road, it doesn’t have to be today but we can be in community another time and, and Theresa, how I’m identifying with, with things and, and how Steve. I may identify with some things but there’s some richness there that I’d like to know more about and understand and communicate with you and, and hear what you’re saying to me and understanding and embrace your world view that doesn’t have to be mine. So revisit all of that and Soraya, too, understand that you have so much strength and your powers of observation and leveling and sharing and, and all your, what you bring to the table as far as ethnicity is only serving you so well and how I share that with you and where I come from an homogenous place and how much that’s given me strength and empowerment and I see so much of that in you – an empowered person. And, and thank you to the leader that I just, its a gift. It’s a gift to have that so that’s what I’m going forward with. So thank you to the group.

02:17:25 Lynn Banez You’re welcome. Any, any…

02:17:30 Soraya Uhm, yeah, I think what I taking away from this group session is actually something I never realized until after the fact. I was thinking about this, is, ah, uhm, when I don’t understand something when I don’t understand something or where and trying to make sense to it, keeping in check with myself that my frustration may take a role in how I relate or how I react to my understanding something and it’s, ah, with what happened, ah, I didn’t realize that I think the way I came across it was because of my frustration not really comprehending what you were trying to share with the group. And I think for myself I have to, I will make it a point to keep in mind and realize that when I don’t understand something from what someone’s saying or just the situation, to stop myself and see okay, the level of frustration form within –

02:18:30 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

02:18:35 Soraya – and see how to, to respond to that in, in a more productive way rather than just showing my frustration out to the group, so…

02:18:40 Lynn Banez That’s sort of similar to what Theresa was saying about, you know, kind of being aware. You have an awareness now –

02:18:45 Soraya Internally.

Lynn Banez – of what that feeling’s like so I can interrupt it.

02:18:50 Soraya Right.

Lynn Banez And, and, and do something different with it.

Soraya Right.

Lynn Banez But I also think from what I’ve experienced with you, Soraya, and the way that you’ve communicated, that sometimes your frustration might come out larger.

02:19:00 Soraya Yeah.

Diversity focus: Language

Lynn Banez Than it, than it seems to you I think as a reflection of your, ah, being Spanish-speaking as well because typically a lot of Spanish speakers have a more, what we call impassioned speech –

02:19:20 Soraya Yeah.

Lynn Banez – and, and, you know, so, so emotions and the way one talks kind of colors us in, in, in everything.

02:19:25 Soraya Hmm. I never thought, yeah.

02:19:30 Lynn Banez And, you know, just to be aware that someone may misread that and you’re just very used to it because you, you live in that language. So, uhm, you know, I just didn’t want you to think, gee, I have to, I have to, you know question to how I put my feelings out there but I think other people have to be sensitive, too, that when you’re coming from a different cultural background, different language, that you have also a different way of communicating. So the awareness can come from both sides.

02:19:55 Soraya Okay. Thank you.

02:20:00 Lynn Banez Steve, anything?

02:20:00 Steve Uhm, not about your observations. uhm, most, mostly to take people as individuals.

02:20:10 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Steve Seek out what those individuals bring, see their gift, their richness and how people, what, what, what sort of traditions they come from –

02:20:20 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Positive assets in others

Steve – quite honestly and, and not to try and, you know, categorize them right off the bat but to let them make those, uhm, judgments for themselves. And take, take those adjectives apply the, apply the adjectives that they use to them.

02:20:35 Open question

Lynn Banez How was it for you today to hear all the dialogue really about White men and oppressors knowing that you’re in the process of trying to be an American male who interrupts oppression and just how, how was that as an experience for you and then how might you use that to kind of inform how you work in the world?

02:21:00 Steve Uhm, I understand that first of all, uhm, until like I said couple sessions ago, until recently I identified as a White American male, White male and, uhm, first, first and foremost I understand that position, but at the same time there’s a frustration there because of all, all the, the feelings of oppression that others and other groups and categories feel. And trying to find a definition for myself and for who I am and how I identify has been and quite honestly continues to be something that, that I, I’ve working towards.

02:21:40 Lynn Banez Uh-hmm.

Steve So…

Lynn Banez And I think maybe one of the things you can, you can add to, to what you’re working on is, I mean, you had an awareness before of how White males were perceived –

02:21:50 Steve Uh-hmm.

Positive Asset: Ally

02:21:55 Lynn Banez – but having an awareness to how people may, ah, assume that about you, yet immediately upon meeting you and not giving you the chance and for you to build space to build that chance, to say, Well wait a minute. I have a great gift, I have the gift of because I have been in the oppressor group, because I have privilege I am in a gifted group of being able to be a really important and powerful ally and interrupter of oppression in ways that many other people cannot be.

02:22:25 Steve Absolutely.

02:22:30 Lynn Banez Is there any other feedback you wanna give to each other about what you, what you see as strengths and assets in each other that, as, ah, we kind of come to a close and you walk out into the world again?

02:22:40 Theresa I just wanna say something to Soraya, uhm, you know, you and, uhm, Araya have had the exchange, uhm, but I wanna tell you when you said what you said to Araya I felt validated. So there was, there was a very, for me that was a very positive exchange, uhm, because I had, you know, shared similar, you know, that I felt, you know, that, you know, people were not getting to the point type thing and when you spoke, I felt that you validated my, my point of view. So for me that was a very positive experience and I just wanted to, to share that with you.

02:23:20 Lynn Banez Okay, any, anybody else? Okay, I had, I had thought that we could maybe role play ways that you can, ah, integrate this into your work life but it seems like you have ideas of how you might do that and you’ve demonstrated it, ah, to some degree in here as you even articulated, ah, what you wanted to do. So, if unless there is anything further, I would just like to thank you for the opportunity of working with you today throughout our group sessions and getting to know you, ah, a little bit more in, in different ways. And, you know, I, I look forward to continuing the work with some of you and some of you will move on in different directions. So thank you.

02:24:05 Araya Thank you.

Steve Thank you.

UNKNOWN Thank you.

Theresa Thank you, everybody.

Steve Yes. Thank you, guys. I appreciate it.

Jean Yes.

Theresa It was great. Uh-hmm.

02:24:15 END OF GROUP SESSION Producer Bruce Oldershaw Technical Assistant Edward Murch Floor Director Elizabeth Robey Copyright 2002 Microtraining Associates, Inc www.emicrotraining.com infoemicrotraining.com [888] 505-5576